Introducing the Geni Consistency Checker

Job Waterreus

The issue here is not how you call that name: maiden name, birth name, whatever.
The issue is that the checker considers it to be an error when men have only last name and not that other name (birth name, maiden name, whichever way you call it).
And solution for fixing that error (which is actually no error at all), as suggested by the checker, is to add some random name to that birth name field. I have hundreds such profiles. Quite often the checker suggests, there should be mother's maiden name, but this is completely wrong. How can it be, that adding completely wrong name, will make the things OK for the checker. And vice versa, when everything is OK, then it is considered to be an error for checker?
for example:
Jaan Lepp
Jaan Lepp. this person has first name and last name, so seems everything is OK, but checker says, this profile has an error, because this person does not have birth name and suggests either "Lep" or "Masik" should be used (with one click fix).
Masik was that persons mother's maiden name, which she gave up on her marriage 18 years before this Jaan Lepp was even born.
This is absurd, when adding completely wrong names to profiles, makes this error status disappear.

Another technical thing I have recently experienced (perhaps it's just some new technical thing unrelated to the checker, but I don't remember it happening before the checker was introduced).
Anyway, currently it happens quite often, when merging profiles, the system automatically chooses one version and you cannot even see anymore what was the name shape on that other version, you merged.
In the past it was more normal: you had always these 2 different versions, so you could choose one yourself and add the name from other version (if it was different ) to the nicknames field.
But now that other version of the name gets lost, unless you write it down somewhere before starting to merge profiles.

Randel Vuks,

Yes, I noticed this a few times.
If you have any profile links for profiles that had that problem it may help diagnose it.
I have seen it with gender and with other names.

The checker warns you if you have no birth surname for a profile (it is not an error message), like it warns you if children have another last name then both of the parents.

For profiles that do have a last name the convention is the the surname at birth should be always filled with the last name at birth and the last name field should be filled with the last known last name of that person (so if there was no known name change they should be the same)

The way Geni works at the moment creates big problems if you do not fill the surname at birth for profiles which do have a last name because the surname at birth is exported to last name in the GEDCOM.

So if you want to make a backup you get profiles without a last name if you do not fill this field. It would be nice if Geni changed this, but at the moment that is how Geni works.
As many profiles have multiple managers you create a problem for all of them if you do not enter a value in it when the profile does have a last name.

I agree the fixes are mostly completely wrong for a very large part of the tree.

Why would you add a random name into the birth surname field? If it pre surnames then let us know so the checker can be updated, If it is post surnames, add their surname at birth into the field.

Private User
First, I don't understand what is pre surnames and what is post surnames?
Second, That was my question, why you should add random name into the birth surname field? Because this is what geni / the checker is currently asking people to do.
The point is, that there are 35 participants in this discussion, who have been told, that the best thing is to ignore the checker. But beside this, there are over 11 000 000 other geni users, who do not ignore it. I have now constantly discussions with people who add these birth names to people, who never actually had that particular name. And their answer is usually, that checker indicated, that there was a problem with the profile and they just followed the solution offered by checker's 'one click fix' and added another birth name to the profile, suggested by checker, so the inconsistency status would go away.
I repeat, most of the times the checker suggests names, that were never used for that person, but adding that additional wrong name (mother's maiden name or something else suggested), with one click fix, is what these 11 000 000 people do, in order to get rid of the inconsistency of that profile.

Pre surnames - means the time before surnames became common in your location. Historically people didn't have surnames - Geni has attempted to code for this so if you getting the inconsistency on a profile in that period let us know so we can fix it.

Post surnames - means the time that surnames became common in your location.

If the person was born with a surname - then add that surname into the "Birth Surname" field. If the person has never changed their surname then add the same name into the "Last Name" field. Geni will only display the name only once.

The so-called convention for last names on Geni are sadly wrong. It is not a correct convention according to genealogical standards, and that is the main problem. If the so-called last name convention on Geni should be updated to be according to the genealogical standard of how names are written (names are written according to their baptism records, or earliest record found) then this problem would go away. The first names (and middle names) what be what the person was baptized and the lastname would be the lastname of the father at the child's baptism or the patronym the child got at birth. That is how genealogists have written names for ages and that is how we are still writing names. I'm never using the namefield "Surname at birth" on Geni, like I never use a namefiled called that in any of the other genealogical softwares I use. In most of the offline desktop software names used after marriage, if different from that at birth, is something you can select under an Alternate names tab. This is also badly needed on Geni.

Private User
You can't be serious?
I describe the problem (profiles ruined by people adding them wrong birth names, which they never had, as a result of this checker's false suggestions) and your answer to this is 'add birth surnames'?
The general concept pretty much for everything is: 'when it's working, dont' change it'. The system has been working for over 10 years, the profiles have been correct for over 10 years.
Now geni makes some changes and declares the profiles to be false. And invites people to add some other birth surnames to these profiles in order to fix it. Half of the suggestions are the person's mother's maiden name. (but the suggestions never include the actual, correct family name).
This is wrong not only technically.
But this is completely wrong as a concept or an idea: to change profiles without any research.
No one should touch or change, not to mention merge any profile, unless they have studied historical documents first. The checker does not read any archive documents, hence - the checker can't make any suggestions, especially invite people to change profiles with 'one click fix'. All this makes only a big mess, destroys the correct family tree and creates a huge amount of unnecessary extra work for all those, who actually care about their family history.

I am well aware of the introduction of family names and times before it (just didn't put it together pre surnames, post surnames).
What can be possibly done about this other than removing the checker or at least removing the option, where the checker suggests birth surnames for people who died before family names were introduced? (In Estonia the family names were introduced in 1826 in the south and in 1835 in the northern part of the country)
example:
Jaan
both Jaan and his father Hindrik died before the family names were introduced, but geni suggests someone should add family name to Jaan, in order to fix his profile?
How can falsifying the history be OK, just because some computer program thinks so?

Randel Vuks, you need to re-read my messages

I said "If it pre surnames then let us know so the checker can be updated, If it is post surnames, add their surname at birth into the field"

If you are advising that people born before 1835 in Estonia didn't have surnames (ie pre surnames) then I didn't say enter a birth surname - I said we need to have Geni update the consistency check for it.

Mike Stangel, are you able to add this to the consistency check please. If birth country = Estonia, and birth date is before 1835 do not do birth surname check as surnames were not used til then. Sorry I don't know if Estonia might have other names that also need to be included.

I am working through my paternal line of many who fought in the CSA. If you put the CSA abbreviations in the suffix field as Private User and I discussed on the "My Profile is good enough to be Mastered" thread, it shows up as an inconsistency. I was placing it in parentheses after the rank in the "title" field and it did not.

Apparently, the protocol has been to put CSA in the suffix field. Please advise and/or make correction to the consistency checker. I do not know, but would assume this is the same for those who would indicate (USA) if in the Union forces.

Susanne Floyd, sorry, what does CSA mean?

I searched on CSA and it appears as though there are a few standards being used. Here are a few example just on the first page of results
* Brig. General Albert Pike (CSA) - has it in the display name
* Isaac Jackson Burson - has it in the title with the rank
* A J Veasey - has it in the aka

Perhaps there needs to be a seperate discussion for clarification on what the standard is before we ask Geni to change the code.

Private User, our style for a long time, going back to discussions a decade ago, has been to put "CSA" or "USA" in the suffix field.

I'll start a discussion to see if we want to change that -- but either way, we shouldn't let the consistency checker make that decision for us. We can always ask Geni to simply exempt CSA/USA notations from the checker.

Confederate States of America

Private User, just passing on what I was told. I am going to use the one without the inconsistency showing up for now. It sounds like it needs a curatorial sort and then announcement to us all. I think if rank isn't included on USA or CSA persons, it is likely to cause a fuss overall with some. I have kept it as several collaborators wanted it and honestly,I have come to feel it is a way to face a tremendous schism in our nation and perhaps address some issues that seem to continue to this day.

Sounds good, Private User. I was trying to do that here, but if a separate discussion is needed. That is good. Thanks to all for working this out. I have a "beaucoup" of profiles with this issue to process and need clarification.

No worries Private User, I will leave it up to you.

Susanne Floyd, I'm half Southerner and a quarter Yankee, so I understand! (One of my second-great-grandfathers from North Carolina and one of my fourth-great-grandfathers from Vermont fought each other in the same battle. How American.)

I've just asked Geni if they can stop flagging those suffixes as inconsistencies, and then once they weigh in, I'll start a thread in the USA Portal. Thanks for bringing this up -- I now better understand the sudden increase in people using the prefix field in recent months.

Private User, thanks so much for working on this! Yes, it is a conundrum and one that we need to work out. I am sure we will.

As someone who uses disambiguating suffixes frequently, i mark inconsistency checks as "ignore" when I believe the suffix is correct.

Erica Howton I am good with marking "ignore" on the CSA/USA suffixes, but if it is a consistent inconsistency, then it might warrant consideration for not flagging - if that is the format that Geni wants us to use. It seems like it is much work over nothing. One of those Kurt Vonnegut moments in "Player Piano."

Private User

Over the last couple of weeks I have pointed out several times how the checker destroys the family tree and profiles.
You said, I quote "If it is post surnames, add their surname at birth into the field"
So, as I described there are 11 000 000 people out there, to whom geni tells now to change the profiles they manage and invites them to add completely wrong birth surnames. (As checker suggests only wrong names, not to mention the checker cannot and should not make any suggestions. Ever.).
And your answer to this situation is 'add birth surnames'?!
We have a big problem with geni asking people to add wrong birth surnames to profiles and you say 'add birth surnames'???

The problem is not only the existence of the checker. Bigger problem is the logic (or absence of it) behind it.
If geni team has now taken the position and sending out the message, that no research of profiles will not be necessary in the future anymore and their checker knows names better and more precisely (than archives), then it is a big threat to the family tree and profiles. Personally I think, even most 12-13 years old teens can understand, that the place for historical family information are old church books. And that it is completely wrong to put names by just guessing (or as this latest geni modification is: creating new names, which never existed).

And making the situation Randel Vuks refers to even worse - Geni has been failing to always report changes to profiles one Follows / Manages / in one's Family in the Notifications on one's Home Page - so folks are encouraged to click-and-change -- and the folks who would know that change was wrong may well not be notified a change was made to that profile.

to Geni team:
I have a suggestion. Let's put the church in the centre of the village and give this checker regarding anything concerning names the same function as it is with dates and years: it notifies about possible(!) inconsistency and asks you to go to the person's profile and re-check it, but remove this 'one click fix' option. The system cannot suggest names. You take names from church books, which is something the checker does not do. Nearly all the suggestions by system, which I have seen, have been wrong.
Otherwise users think there's something wrong with the profile and they keep adding these wrong names to profiles, because the checker suggests them to do so.

Something crazy is going on with names in Geni.
I put link to this person (Jaan Kerves / John Kerwes) into FaceBook and it was named there as: Jaan Köster (NB! He was using all life his mother's maiden name)
John / Jaan Kerves

Lauri, Koster was entered as his name since 2009
Yesterday it was changed to Kerves by Private User

Private User

When I added link to FB the name was already corrected in Geni. From which cache FB (or any external link) takes old name? Why such link is not copying current name from Geni?
(Have seen this/similar bug before)

Lauri Kreen, I don't know - you will need to ask Mike.

In recent times I wonder why there is still this discussion over consistency checker, when the system of geni has advanced significantly further. And does several things itself, instead of letting the users to do them.

As already described several times earlier, several bad things happened at the time, when this consistency checker was introduced.

A) Geni tries to fix inconsistencies itself and translates names and puts random (wrong) names to the profiles. (it happens on adding the profile).

B) Geni picking names to profiles itself, instead letting user to choose. When merging 2 profiles, the system itself chooses automatically 1 version of name and the information of the other profile gets lost. (Earlier on merging you got this comparison option, so you could choose yourself, which name to use and which names to add to 'also known as' field. (It does not happen all the time, but still has happened quite often in recent times).

and the recent one (discovered just a few days ago)

C) Geni choosing itself birth year. When merging 2 profiles, who have different birth years, then the system chooses automatically 1 version and the birth year of the other profile gets lost. Earlier on that occasions, you got the profile with inconsistency after the merge, several possible birth years were shown on that profile. It is better to have inconsistency and have 2 different birth years, than to have just 1, which might be incorrect. (2 different birth years give you more accurate range, where you (or someone else) should look for the birth record). (Again, this does not happen with all merges, but it happened).

So, earlier I found this consistency checker, to be a bad idea, as generally there were no correct suggestions by the checker (regarding names).
Well, now Geni changes the names and dates of profiles itself anyway, what is the role of the user?

Randel Vuks, I was able to merge two profiles last night and the under the drop down box there is a function to allow you to select each of the items you want. It is also within the merge center "Resolve Data Conflicts", I think, but a yellow triangle shows up on the profile and lets you check for the duplicated, but different information. You may see it also in the tree profile in the lower corner of the profile box. This helps with determining names, dates, etc. Yes, it automatically puts one on there (usually the one you drop onto the other, but you can make the selection.