John (lll) Framlingham

Biography

John Framlingham was the son and heir of John Framlingham [died 1425] & his wife, said to be Margaret Lee.
This John is not well known & so far, no will has been located. His wife is said to be Mary Walles, but the references below indicate that her name was actually Margaret Waller. Both were living in 1446. The name "William Waller" is mentioned in his father's will of 1425.

Lateran Regesta 334: 1431-1436
Indults to the following to have a portable altar. Registered briefly, as usual, with the incipit ‘Sincere etc.’ All are dated at Florence.
John Framlyngham, nobleman, lord of Debenham, and Margery his wife, noblewoman, of the diocese of Norwich.[3 April 1435] [British History online]

Lists and Indexes, Issue 12, By Great Britain, Public Records Office
Number 166. John Framlynham, esq and Margery his wife, daughter of William Waller: John Crees, feofee of the said William.
Manor of Howes [in Alderton with lands, &c. in Alderton, Bawdsey (Beaudesey), and Hollesley) with fine dated 24 Henry VI. [1446]
C 1/16/166 UK Archives 1446
Plaintiffs: John Framlyngham, esq. and Margery his wife, daughter of William Waller.
Defendants: John Crees, feoffee of the said William.
Subject: Manor of Howes (in Alderton, with lands etc in Alderton, Bawdsey (Beaudesey), and Hollesley); with fine, dated 24 Hen. VI.: [Suffolk]. Thomas Brewes, esq. John Squier, clerk, and John Waren. v. John Framlyngham: Extortion of the abovesaid fine from the said John Crees by the connivance of John Calbrace, sergeant-at-arms; and Memorandum concerning the sale of the reversion of the said manor and lands to petitioners to the behoof of the Marquis of Suffolk

HD 1538/323/1 UK Archives 1 March 1443/1444
Ratification and quitclaim 1. John Wallere, son and heir of William Wallere of Ramesholt [Ramsholt] 2. John Hervey
Reciting demise by John Framlyngham, esq., James Joce, Robert Banyard, William de Hoo, Thomas Helbek, William Debenham, Robert Woode, John Glemham, Alexander Rodelond, chaplain and John Crees, to (2), dated at Ramysholt, 7 Feb. 22 Hen.VI (1444), of 1 bond tenement with houses, curtilages, lands, meadows, pastures and marshes, formerly Hugh Hervy's, in Ramysholt and Aldirton [Alderton], and of annual right of common, by virtue of said tenement, in customary marsh and heath, with 140 sheep, lambs and ewes, to hold of chief lords of fees for accustomed services, paying 4d. annually and 1 suit at general court to J.F., J.J., R.B., W.H., T.H., W.D., R.W., J.G., A.R. and J.C. and their heirs or assigns who shall hold their manor of Peyton Halle in Ramesholt for time being, for all demands: now, for 8 marks, (1) ratifies said charter and quitclaims said property to (2). Warranty clause. No witnesses named. Given at Ramysholt, 1 Mar. 22 Hen.VI.

1445 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9439965
Ref SC 8/248/12359 DATE: 1445
Petitioner: Alexander Shelton to the King [Henry VI]
Shelton, who has long served the King in his wars in France, Normandy and Ireland, requests remedy since on 2 June in the twenty-third year of the King's reign [1445] Wingfield came to his house in Southwark and took away his wife and goods and chattels of great value, and to this day keeps his wife in the house of Framlingham, and he dares not seek remedy at the common law for fear of his life.
People mentioned: Robert Wyngefeld (Wingfield), knight; Joan [Shelton], wife of the petitioner; John Framlyngham (Framlingham), squire.
Dated on the guard to c. 1444, with reference to CPR 1441-6, p. 253, a 1444 appointment of Shelton as collector of custom and cocket of Dublin and Drogheda, and p. 419, a grant to Shelton and John Hardwyk of the offices of chancellor of the green wax and clerk of the common pleas in the Exchequer of Ireland. However, the petition refers to events occurring on 2 June in the twenty-third year [of Henry VI], so the petition must date to 1445 or later.

1467 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7444734
Ref C 1/38/200 UK Archives Date: EITHER 1433-1443 OR more likely 1467-1472
Short title: Martyn v Framelyngham.
Plaintiffs: Aleyn Martyn, brother of Thomas Martyn, late husband of Elizabeth, daughter of John Framelyngham.
Defendants: John Framelyngham, son of the aforesaid John Framelyngham.
Subject: Money to be raised from lands in Framlingham (Framelyngham). Suffolk

“The manors of Suffolk; notes on their history and devolution, with some illustrations of the old manor houses”. by Copinger, Walter Arthur, 1847-1910; Copinger, H. B. (Harold Bernard), b. 1881 (Publication date 1905). Page 129. < Archive.Org >

On John Framlingham's death he was succeeded by his son and heir, John Framlingham, who married Margaret Lee, and died 12th June," 1425, when the manor passed to his son and heir, John Framlingham, who married Mary Walles. On his death the manor passed to his son and heir, John Framlingham, who married Anne, daughter of Sir Robert Wingfield, and died in 1498, when it went to his son and heir. Sir James Framlingham.

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Notes

“Debenham, Suffolk, England - One-Place Study: Crow’s Hall.” < link >

It is known that about the middle of the 14th Century one John Crowe, a Gentleman from Lowestoft, acquired the property and built a large house. It appears that about 1420 Crowes Hall was acquired by Sir John Framlingham. He was succeeded by his son John who died in 1448 and by Sir James who died in 1519. It is not clear whether Sir James or his son Francis built the present house, but it is thought by some authorities that the latter is the more likely as a great deal of building in this style was done in Queen Elizabeth's reign.

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https://www.flickr.com/photos/52219527@N00/13852754863

John Framlingham 1425 and heiress wife Margaret daughter of .... Lee of Sussex.

John was the son of John (Jenkin) Framlingham who bought old Crows Hall manor in 1397 from its builder John Crowe, a gentleman of Lowestoft, .which stayed in the family for many years

Children - 3 sons and 5 daughters
1 John d1448 m Mary Walles / Walks 1595.
(parents of John Framlington 1498 who m Ann daughter of Sir Robert Wingfield and Elizabeth (Goushill Wingfield Hardwick)

There are 4 rivets between them possibly where their son John stood , all below an heraldic shield under a tilting helmet with crest of a falcon (?) spreading its wings

John and Margaret were great great great grandparents of Charles Framlingham 1595 http://www.flickr.com/photos/52219527@N00/13852000985/

In 1397 John Framlingham bought Crow's Hall. Leland gives the following account of this family : " One Henry Framelingham, communely caulid by Office Henry Surveyer, was a stout fellow and had faire Lande in and about Framelingham Toune. And after came one Jenkin Framelingham, and purchased a faire Lordship and Manor Place about Debenham Market a Mile from Some in Southfolk. This Manor Place stondeth on a praty Hille and a Wood aboute it a litle withoute Debenham Market Towne, and is caulid Crowis Haulle, for one Crow a Gentilman was owner of it, or ever Jenkin Framelingham bought it. This Jenkin lyith yn Debenham Chirche : and sins the Frame- linghams hath bene Lordes of the Toune of Debenham. The Framelinghams of late exchaunged with the Lordes of Northfolk and Wingefield for their Landes in Framelingham self, and in sum other partes very nere to it.

Ther be no mo of the Framelinghams that be Men of Landes there but the onely Framelingham of Debenham." On John Framlingham's death he was succeeded by his son and heir, John Framlingham, who married Margaret Lee, and died 12th June," 1425, when the manor passed to his son and heir, John d1448 m Mary Walles / Walks 1595.

On his death the manor passed to his son and heir, John Framlingham, who married Anne, daughter of Sir Robert Wingfield, and died in 1498, when it went to his son and heir Sir James Framlingham died in 1519, when the manor passed to his son and heir, Thomas Framlingham, who died without issue, whereupon the manor devolved on his brother and heir, Francis Framlingham, married to EUzabeth Anne, daughter of Sir Philip Tilney, and died 20th September, 1544 when it passed to his son and heir. Sir Charles Framlingham.

References

• “The manors of Suffolk; notes on their history and devolution, with some illustrations of the old manor houses”. by Copinger, Walter Arthur, 1847-1910; Copinger, H. B. (Harold Bernard), b. 1881 (Publication date 1905). Page 129. < Archive.Org >
• https://www.britainexpress.com/counties/suffolk/churches/debenham.htm. The oldest memorial is a brass in the chancel to John Framlingham of Crows Hall (d 1425) and his wife Margaret. The most impressive memorial, however, is the tomb of a later Framlingham, Sir Charles (d 1595) and his first wife Dorothy. The tomb was erected by Framlingham's second wife Elizabeth in 1598. The effigies of Sir Charles and Lady Dorothy are finely carved and show in beautifully detail what fashions were like the late Elizabethan period.
• https://www.crows-hall.com/the-house