John Fleming, 2nd Lord Fleming

John Fleming, 2nd Lord Fleming

• Chamberlain of Scotland1,2,3,4
• Born: 1465
• Died: 1 November 1524. Cause: killed by John Tweedie of Drummelzier.
• Father: Malcolm Fleming, Master of Fleming d. c 1477
• Mother: Eupheme Livingston d. a 1 Jun 1493

John Fleming was the second son to Sir Malcolm Fleming, of Monycabock, the heir to Robert, 1st Lord Fleming, and his wife Euphemia Livingston.[1]

His father died in 1477 and his brother David died in 1482 and he was served heir to his brother, in the lands of Dunbulls, on 2 May 1482. For some reason, likely his actions against the King, other lands were delayed and he was served heir to his brother for Auchtermony 30 Mar 1490. … By 1521 he was one of the most influential nobles at court, a feat not without its enemies. By Parliament he was appointed one of the three noblemen to abide with the King, each for three months. …

By 1520 the estate of Fruid had fallen to an Heiress. The estate was once part of the Fraser estates of Oliver Castle which had become Fleming lands after the marriage of Patrick Fleming, Lord of Biggar, although held to them by a family of Tweedie. John Fleming held the superiority to Fruid and as such the ward and marriage of the Heiress. He would, no doubt, be anxious to ensure his borders and he contracted to marry his illegitimate son, Malcolm to the Heiress, thus ensuring his borders and providing his illegitimate son with lands. It is not clear that the marriage occurred. Hunter believes so as there is evidence[12] to suggest she styles him her husband.

This incensed the Tweedies, presumably as they saw advantage to a marriage with her and one that was likely promised by Lord Fleming when she was not an Heiress. The Tweedies waited until Lord Fleming was hawking with a small party and attacked him. Lord Fleming was killed by John Tweedie of Drumelzier and Fleming's party, including his son and heir, Malcolm, imprisoned. In order to obtain his liberty, he had to grant the ward and marriage of Fruid to Tweedie and as a pledge that he would fulfil the agreement which he had made, he put into the custody of the Tweedies, Malcolm Fleming his brother, Robert Stewart of Minto, and William Fleming of Boghall; these being retained for some time in Drummelzier. … On the 22 October 1528, the Tweedies were declared to be fugitives from the law, and were put to the horn, and their goods forfeited and conferred as a gift, under the Privy Seal, on Malcolm, Lord Fleming. In a hearing by the Privy Council in March 1530, the matter still not fully resolved, James Tweedie, heir-apparent of Drummelzier, was banished from Scotland and England for a period of three years or until such time as the King agreed. The courts required Tweedie to grant to Lord Fleming the land of old extent of Mossfennan, the land of old extent of Smallhopes and the mill thereof and the land called Urisland, in compensation for the loss of Ward of Fruid.[13]

Family

Disputed Family

It is not certain which wife is the mother of the children, and how many children there were.

• Balfour Paul in the Scots Peerage lists 6: 5 by Eupheme Drummond; 1 by Agnes Somerville.
• Clan MacFarland, citing Stirnet & “House of Lennox,” lists 8: 1 by Elizabeth Ross; 4 by Eupheme Drummond; 3 by Margaret Stewart.
• Wikitree (retrieved 20 April 2022) lists 7: 3 by Eupheme Drummond; 1 by an unknown woman; 1 by Margaret Stewart

Unsourced children

• Lady Margaret Thompson, (Bogus) (1494 - 1586). Married “Sir William Charles Thompson” Detached 20 April 2022.
• Johanna ‘Jean’ Fleming (1525 - ) Married David Crawford of Kerse. More often seen as daughter of Malcolm Fleming, 3rd Lord Fleming.
• Elizabeth Fleming (1530 - ). Married William Crichton. More often seen as daughter of Malcolm Fleming, 3rd Lord Fleming

Marriages & children

(Disputed) John Fleming married (1) Elizabeth Ross circa 1491 at Scotland.4,5. There is a record of a divorce by Lord Fleming in 1496, after which he married Eupheme Drummond.

1 child of John Fleming and Elizabeth Ross:

• (Disputed) 1. Jean Fleming 4 b. c 1492, d. 1538. Married James Muirhead, 5th of Lauchope, b. 1490, Lauchope, Lanarkshire, Scotland. ” It seems far more likely that she was a Hamilton. If there is any original source please provide.” (Wikitree). (‘Jean Fleming, here treated, is reported to have been the daughter of John, Lord Fleming, ancestor of the present Earl of Wigton.’ A System of Heraldry etc. By Alexander Nisbet. Volume II: p. 262)

John Fleming married (1/2) bef. 5 May 1496 Eupheme Drummond, 5th dau. of John [Drummond], 1st Lord Drummond, by his wife Lady Elizabeth Lindsay, only dau. of Alexander [Lindsay], 4th Earl of Crawford. On 3 May 1502 she died, by poisoning, along with her sisters Margaret, one of four mistresses of James IV, and Sybella (d. unm.).

Euphemia Drummond, married, in 1495, to John, 2nd Lord Fleming, by “whom he had two sons and five daughters.” [SIC] ("Genealogical memoir of the most noble and ancient house of Drummond" by David Malcolm pub. 1808).

John Fleming is known to have had two daughters, unnamed by Balfour Paul and likely born before 1502 when Agnes Drummond was poisoned. (Wikitree)

(Possibly) the children of John Fleming and Euphemia Drummond:

• 1. Malcolm Fleming, later 3rd Lord Fleming; ( b.12 Jan 1493 - d. 10 Sep 1547). Killed in Action during the Rough Wooing at the Battle of Pinkie Cleugh. Married Janet Stewart.
• 2. Jean Fleming. Married David Crawfurd, 5th of Kerse as daughter of Malcolm Fleming, 3rd Lord
• 3. Elizabeth Fleming. Married William Crichton, 5th Lord of Sanquhar. as daughter of Malcolm Fleming, 3rd Lord

(Possibly) the child of John Fleming by an unknown mistress:

• 1. Malcolm Fleming, Prior of Whithorn (b. abt 1505 - d. bef. 30 Mar 1569). “Although Balfour Paul and Crawford mention he was born to Euphame, his first wife, it seems improbable that he named two sons Malcolm to the same mother. In Letters to Mary, Queen of Scots,[3] he is certainly noticed as Malcolm, Prior of Whithorn and second son to Lord Fleming thus born prior to James, his brother. In the work by Douglas of Glenbervie,[4] he is mentioned as being possibly illegitimate. William Hunter[5] mentions that he was most likely illegitimate. “John, second Lord Fleming, claimed the superiority of Fruid and the ward and marriage of Katherine Fraser, who not only held Fruid, but also Mossfennan and lands in Glenholm. His design was that she should marry his son Malcolm and it has been said that this marriage actually took place. But that is unlikely. …” (Wikitree)

John Fleming mar. (3 & 4, or 4 & 5) bef. 13 Feb 1508/9 (div. c. 1509; remar. after 17 Dec 1509; div. bef. 25 Oct 1515; mar. (2) bef. 1 May 1528 Alexander Douglas of Mains) Lady Margaret Stewart, 1st dau. of Matthew [Stewart], 2nd or 11th Earl of Lennox, by his second wife Elizabeth Hamilton, only dau. of James [Hamilton], 1st Lord Hamilton, by his second wife the Princess Mary, former wife of Thomas [Boyd], 1st Earl of Arran, and 1st dau. of James II, King of Scotland

(Possibly) the children of John Fleming and Margaret Stewart (Stirnet):

• 1. James Fleming of Henderland (b. 1502 / 1510 - d after 4 Apr 1532). Died unmarried.
• 2. (daughter) Fleming. Married? James Tweedie, of Drummelzier. (This marriage may have been contracted but never confirmed. Perhaps as a way of defusing the fued between the families.)
• 3. (daughter)’ Fleming. (b Abt 1508 - d 1580). Married Laird Patrick "of Falahill" Murray

mar. (4/5) Agnes Somerville (mar. (2) betw. Dec 1526 and Jan 1528/9 as his 3rd wife George [Leslie], 4th Earl of Rothes; d. betw. 18 Aug 1541 and 10 Apr 1543), dau. of Sir John Somerville of Cambusnethan

Children of John Fleming and Agnes Somerville:

• 1.Margaret Fleming, (b abt 1516 - d 1550); mar. after 12 dec 1540 John Cunningham of Glengarnock

John Fleming, 2nd Lord Fleming died 1 Nov 1524 murdered) suc. by son “by first wife” (Malcolm, 3rd Lord Fleming, by Euphame Drummond)

Notes

an opponent of King James III, he proclaimed King James IV, a child, king in 1488; part of embassies to France; Chamberlain of Scotland 1516/7-24; appointed on of the guardians of the King 1523; assassinated by John Tweedie of Drumelzier and others.

There is a record of a divorce by Lord Fleming in 1496, after which he married Eupheme Drummond.

The Scottish Nation: Fleming

John, the younger son, second Lord Fleming, was one of the three lords appointed in July 1515, guardians of King James the Fifth in his infancy. He was sent ambassador to France, and on his return he was, in January 1517, appointed chancellor of Scotland. In 1519, he was sent over to France to urge the regent duke of Albany to return to Scotland; and he was one of the three noblemen appointed by parliament 1523, to abide with King James the Fifth, each for three months. He was assassinated while enjoying the sport of hawking, by John Tweedie of Drummelzier, James Tweedie his son, and others, 1st November 1524. He married, first, Euphemia, fifth daughter of David Lord Drummond, and by her, who was poisoned with two of her sisters in 1501, (see DRUMMOND), he had issue. He married, secondly, Lady Margaret Stewart, eldest daughter of Matthew second earl of Lennox. She got a charter from her husband of the lands of Biggar and Thankertoun March 12, 1508-9. They were soon after divorced, and she resigned the lands in his favour October 26, 1516, and was then designed ‘olim reputatae spousae dicti Johannis.’ She afterwards married Alexander Douglas of Mains. In 1508 he had been denounced rebel at the king’s horn, and fined in the penalty of five hundred merks for not entering John Fleming of Boghall, for whom he had become surety or bail, for trial, charged with art and part of the rape or ravishment of the said Lady Margaret Stewart. Lord Fleming married, thirdly, Agnes Somerville, whose parentage is not stated.

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2nd Lord Fleming, Chamberlain of Scotland

https://www.clanmacfarlanegenealogy.info/genealogy/TNGWebsite/getpe...

John, second Lord Fleming, claimed the superiority of Fruid and the ward and marriage of Katherine Fraser, who not only held Fruid, but also Mossfennan and lands in Glenholm. His design was that she should marry his son Malcolm and it has been said that this marriage actually took place. But that is unlikely. John Tweedie of Drumelzier cherished the same design for his nephew James, and this was quite natural, for the two families were friendly, and in 1521 Elizabeth Douglas, the widow of William Fraser, Katherine's grand-father, had disponed to Tweedie the rents of Fruid and Mossfennan during the nonage of her bairns. On 1st November, 1524, Lord Fleming, with his eldest son and heir Malcolm, and a small retinue, was hawking in Glenholm, about two or three miles from Drumelzier. There he was met or waylaid by John Tweedie and his relatives and friends to the number of about fifty. Words passed and then blows, and Lord Fleming was killed, and Malcolm, his eldest son, was captured. This Malcolm obtained his liberty by consenting to the marriage of Katherine with James Tweedie; and his brother Malcolm, along with Robert Stewart, younger of Minto, and William Fleming of Boghall, were imprisoned in the 'Place of Drumelzier' as pledges for the fulfilment of the contract. Katherine, with the writs of her lands, was handed over, and she was promptly married to James Tweedie. Then the law came into operation, and the Tweedies attempted to pacify the angry Flemings. At first they were so far successful that an 'assythment' was arranged on 23rd November under which the Laird of Drumelzier and his accomplices went to the Cross of Peebles in their shirts - 'sark alane' - offered their naked swords to Lord Fleming and his kin, and bound themselves to be his servants. But that was not an end of the matter. The Privy Council took it up, and Tweedie was ordained to found a chaplainry in the church of Biggar, with a yearly stipend of ¹40 from his lands, for prayers for the soul of the dead Lord Fleming. James Tweedie, the heir, and other persons guilty of the slaughter, were banished for three years. But still the feud went on, On 8th August, 1525, Malcolm, Lord Fleming, apprised for 8000 merks the greater part of Tweedie's lands: (1) Easter Drumelzier, with the Place of Tinnies, Hopkailzie, half of Halmyre, and Deanshouses, extending in whole to 210 merks of yearly value; (2) Wester Drumelzier with its Place, extending to ¹40 yearly, which belonged to Tweedie's son James; and (3) Glenbreck and Glenumford in Peeblesshire, and Clifton in Roxburghshire, extending to 100 merks yearly. Notwithstanding this, John Tweedie did not give up his home, and on 27th September, 1526, Lord Fleming obtained a decree of delivery of the lands and fortalice of Drumelzier. On 6th June of the following year a respite for the crime for nineteen years was granted to Tweedie and thirteen others, and a settlement was finally reached in 1531, when Katherine, the Lady of Fruid, handed over to Lord Fleming all her possessions in the county, with the exception of Fruid itself, and the processes and apprisings against the Tweedies were then withdrawn.

References

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fleming,_2nd_Lord_Fleming cites
• The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom Extant, Extinct, or Dormant; first edition by George Edward Cokayne, Clarenceux King of Arms
• (Jean Fleming, here treated, is reported to have been the daughter of John, Lord Fleming, ancestor of the present Earl of Wigton.l. )A System of Heraldry etc. By Alexander Nisbet. Volume II: p. 262)
• https://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00112047&tree=LEO cites
• The Wallop Family and Their Ancestry 1928 , Watney, Vernon James. 337
• https://www.clanmacfarlanegenealogy.info/genealogy/TNGWebsite/getpe... cites
• 1.[S3] House of Lennox, Chevalier Terrance Gach MacFarlane, p9 (Reliability: 3).
• 2.[S6] Stirnet Genealogy, Peter Barns-Graham, Livingston02: The Scots Peerage (Linlithgow), Burkes Exti n ct Peerages 1883 (Linlithgow) (Reliability: 3).
• 3.[S6] Stirnet Genealogy, Peter Barns-Graham, Fleming01: The Scots Peerage (Wigtown), Burkes Extinct Pee r ages 1883 (Fleming of Wigtown) (Reliability: 3).
• 4.[S105] Andrew Cuninghame, 1st Laird of Drumquhassil, Blaine L. Berkowitz, Esq, MBE (Hon), FRSA, FZS, Kt.C. OEG, (recieved as e-mail attachment 10 Feb 2012).
• 5.[S6] Stirnet Genealogy, Peter Barns-Graham, Strangely, TSP (Somerville) does not mention (Reliability: 3).
• https://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p1251.htm... cites

1. [S11407] Unknown author, The Complete Peerage, by Cokayne, Vol. V, p. 531.
2. [S16] Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. III, p. 593.
3. [S4] Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. I, p. 671.
4. [S11649] Clan MacFarlane & Associated Clans Genealogy.
5. [S11642] Www.geni.com, Managed by Christian Alexander Carlson Herwitz.
6. [S11587] The Scots Peerage, Vol. VIII, edited by Sir James Balfour Paul, p. 537. < Archive.Org >

• http://www.cracroftspeerage.co.uk/online/content/index1707.htm#FLEM...
• Reference: WikiTree Genealogy - SmartCopy: Apr 1 2017, 0:22:37 UTC cites

1. #S-1 Balfour Paul; Vol 8, page 535
2. #S-1 Balfour Paul; Vol 8, page 535
3. Scots Law: a deed in which a superior recognizes the title of the heir of a deceased vassal or tenant to enter upon the superior's land
4. The Records of the Parliaments of Scotland to 1707, K.M. Brown et al eds (St Andrews, 2007-2015), 1493/5/12.
5. The Records of the Parliaments of Scotland to 1707, K.M. Brown et al eds (St Andrews, 2007-2015), 1493/5/13.
6. #S-3 Grant; page 11, Charter 57.
7. #S-1 Balfour Paul; Vol 8, page 536
8. #S-3 Grant; page 11, Charter 59.
9. #S-3 Grant; page 11, Charter 61.
10. #S-3 Grant; page 11, Charter 63 A.
11. #S-2 William Hunter; page 500
12. #S-2 William Hunter; page 503
13. #S-2 William Hunter; page 507
14. #S-1 Balfour Paul; Vol 8, page 536
15. Balfour Paul; Vol 7, page 45
16. #S-3 Grant; page 11, Charter 60.
17. #S-1 Balfour Paul; Vol 8, page 537
18. The peerage of Scotland: containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that Kingdom; Crawford; Earl of Wigtown; page 497
19. The peerage of Scotland : containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that kingdom, from their origin to the present generation; Douglas; Vol 2, page 633
20. The peerage of Scotland: containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that Kingdom; Crawford; Earl of Wigtown; page 497
21. The peerage of Scotland : containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that kingdom, from their origin to the present generation; Douglas; Vol 2, page 633
22. #S-2 William Hunter; page 503
23. for example
24. Balfour Paul; Vol 8, page 537
25. The peerage of Scotland: containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that Kingdom; Crawford; Earl of Wigtown; page 497
26. The peerage of Scotland : containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that kingdom, from their origin to the present generation; Douglas; Vol 2, page 633
27. Source S-1 Balfour Paul. The Scots peerage : founded on Wood's ed. of Sir Robert Douglas's Peerage of Scotland; containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that kingdom. Vol. 8. Edinburgh: Douglas, 1904. archive.org
28. Source S-2 William Hunter. Biggar and the House of Fleming: an account of the Biggar district, archaeological, historical, and biographical. Edinburgh: Paterson, 1867. archive.org
29. Source S-3 Francis Grant, Ed.. Charter Chest of the Earldom of Wigtown. Vol. 8. Wigtown: Charter Chest, 1910. Family Search
30. http://www.ancestry.co.uk/genealogy/records/john-fleming_22402846

• A Guide to The Eric Robertson Collection of Fleming Family Charters.

Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library University of Toronto (2014). < PDF > MSS gen ovs 3 Period 1453-1524: 20 charters. Robert 1st lord Fleming died in 1491. The last ten years of his life were tainted by many outrages and accusations of being insane. His grandson John succeeded to the title and became Vice-Admiral in the fleet of James IV (1488-1513); he was made Lord Chamberlain in 1516. Eight years later, in 1524, the 2nd lord Fleming met his death in Kilbucho glen where he was killed by the Tweedies of Drumelzier as a result of a feud.