Fulk de Lisures

From Medlands

1. RICHARD [I] Engaine (-after 1085). Domesday Book records “Richard Engaine” holding land in Lillingstone Lovell in Oxfordshire [Buckinghamshire][43]. Domesday Book records “jurors in Huntingdon” who "say that 36 hides of land in Brampton which Richard Engaine claims belong to the forest were [part] of the king’s demesne farm"[44]. [m firstly/secondly ---. The source quoted below refers to Richard [I]’s known wife as "ultimæ uxori suæ , suggesting that he had a previous wife or wives.] "m [secondly/thirdly?] as her first husband, ---. She married secondly Richard FitzUrse. Military fee certifications in the Red Book of the Exchequer, in 1166, record the knights’ fees held from "F[ulconis] de Lisuris" in Northamptonshire, referring to land which "Ricardus Engaine avus meus" gave to "ultimæ uxori suæ in dotem, scilicet uxori Ricardi filii Ursi"[45]. Richard [I] & his [first/second/third] wife had three children:

a) VITALIS [Viel] [I] Engaine (-after 1130). The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Vitalis Engaine...Rogerus de Bennifeld" returning for “terre Willi de Lusor”, and “idem Vitalis” for “de censu Forest...terram suam de Laxetona”, in Northamptonshire[46]. The Liber niger monasterii S. Petri de Burgo records "Viel Enganie en Torp iii virgæ et en Haragrava dimidia hida et en Pihtesle...i milite" among the “Descriptio militum de abbatia de Burgo”, marginal notes reading “iste fuit avus Ricardi Engaine qui modo est...Pater Fulconis de Lisures”[47]. m --- de Lisours, daughter of WILLIAM de Lisours & his wife ---. The 1130 Pipe Roll records "Vitalis Engaine...Rogerus de Bennifeld" returning for “terre Willi de Lusor” in Northamptonshire[48]. The entry, as well as the name used by Vitalis’s son Fulk, suggest that Vitalis married the daughter of William de Lisours. Vitalis [I] & his wife had two children:

i) RICHARD [II] Engaine (-before 1177). The Liber niger monasterii S. Petri de Burgo records "Ricardus Engaine ii hidæ in Hamtonascira...i milite..." among the “Descriptio militum de abbatia de Burgo”, marginal notes reading “iste fuit filius Viel et pater Ricardi qui modo est”[49].
ii) FULK de Lisours (-after 1166). Military fee certifications in the Red Book of the Exchequer, in 1166, record the knights’ fees held from "F[ulconis] de Lisuris" in Northamptonshire, referring to land which "Ricardus Engaine avus meus" gave to "ultimæ uxori suæ in dotem, scilicet uxori Ricardi filii Ursi" and refers to land held by "duæ amitæ meæ"[50]. The Liber niger monasterii S. Petri de Burgo records "Viel Enganie en Torp iii virgæ et en Haragrava dimidia hida et en Pihtesle...i milite" among the “Descriptio militum de abbatia de Burgo”, marginal notes reading “iste fuit avus Ricardi Engaine qui modo est...Pater Fulconis de Lisures”[51]. m ALIX d’Auberville, daughter of --- ([1135]-after 29 Sep 1189). The Rotuli de Dominabus of 1185 records “Alicia que fuit uxor Fulconis de Lisoriis et soror Willielmi de Auberville...L annorum et habet ii filios milites et ii alios et vi filias maritatas et iii filias maritandas” and specifies "terra sua in Glaptorn...in Abitone...et in Hundredo de Spelho"[52]. Fulk & his wife had thirteen children:

(1) thirteen children . The Rotuli de Dominabus of 1185 records “Alicia que fuit uxor Fulconis de Lisoriis et soror Willielmi de Auberville...L annorum et habet ii filios milites et ii alios et vi filias maritatas et iii filias maritandas” and specifies "terra sua in Glaptorn...in Abitone...et in Hundredo de Spelho"[53].

b) daughter . The 1130 Pipe Roll records "-ugo de Auco" returning for “terra et filia Ric Ingaine et minist suo de Forest” in Northamptonshire[54]. Military fee certifications in the Red Book of the Exchequer, in 1166, record the knights’ fees held from "F[ulconis] de Lisuris" in Northamptonshire, referring to land which "Ricardus Engaine avus meus" gave to "ultimæ uxori suæ in dotem, scilicet uxori Ricardi filii Ursi" and refers to land held by "duæ amitæ meæ"[55]. m HUGUES d’Eu, son of --- (-after 1129).
c) daughter . Military fee certifications in the Red Book of the Exchequer, in 1166, record the knights’ fees held from "F[ulconis] de Lisuris" in Northamptonshire, referring to land which "Ricardus Engaine avus meus" gave to "ultimæ uxori suæ in dotem, scilicet uxori Ricardi filii Ursi" and refers to land held by "duæ amitæ meæ"[56].

There is some chronological difficulty with the parentage of Robert de Lisours. The name “Lisours” suggests a connection with Fulk de Lisours who is named above. However, given the death of his daughter’s first husband in 1163 (see below), it is difficult to imagine Robert being born later than 1120 at the latest. If that is correct, he could not have been Fulk’s son by his known wife Alix d’Auberville, given that the latter was declared as 50 years old in 1185 (see above). This affiliation would only seem to work if Alix’s age was under-declared by at least 30 years, which seems impossible if she had three unmarried daughters still of marriageable age in 1185. Three possible solutions are suggested:

(1) Robert was Fulk’s son by an earlier marriage, although that would mean that Fulk himself was born much earlier than appears consistent with the chronology of the Engaine family.

(2) Robert was the son of Vitalis [I] Engaine.

(3) Robert was a member of the previous Lisours family, maybe a relative of the supposed wife of Vitalis [I].

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3D-K.htm

Name Variation: Fulk de Lisouria was also styled Fulk de Lisours.2

Note: He came to England with the Conqueror.3

Name Variation: Fulk de Lisouria was also styled Fulk Lizures.3

Name Variation: Fulk de Lisouria was also styled Lisoriis.3

Of He was of at Sprotborough, Yorkshire, England.

Family

Children: William Lizures

Eude de Lisours (living)

Robert de Lizours b. c 1100

Last Edited 11 Jun 2005

Citations [S218] Marlyn Lewis, Ancestry of Elizabeth of York.

[S347] Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Certain Americans, p. 124.

[S301] Carl Boyer 3rd, Medieval English Ancestors of Robert Abell, p. 97.