Please see Darrell Wolcott: Henry, the Forgotten Son of Cadwgan ap Bleddyn; http://www.ancientwalesstudies.org/id117.html. (Steven Ferry, April 5, 2020.)

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Sources on Elias de Say

“Complete Peerage,” G E C et al, St Catharine press, London, 1910 on. Early Veres, Vol X, Appx J, p.110 seq.
“CP Corrections and additions,” Chris Philips. On FitzAlan, from Joe Cochoit in Apr 2002 “II: Domesday Descendants,” K S B Keats-Rohan, Boydell Press, 2002. Helias de Sai, p. 679 “English Baronies,” I J Sanders, OUP, 2nd ed, 1963. Clun, Salop barony (2nd class), p. 112

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Elias (Saye) de Say (abt. 1111 - bef. 1166)
Elias "Lord of Clun" de Say formerly Saye
Born about 1111 in Clun, Shropshire, England ANCESTORS Son of Picot (Say) de Saye and Adeloyse (Unknown) de Saye [uncertain] Brother of William (Say) de Say [half], Theodore (Saye) de Saye [half] and Henry (Saye) de Saye Husband of Unknown (Unknown) de Saye — married [date unknown] [location unknown] DESCENDANTS Father of Isabel (Saye) de Botreaux Died before 1166 in England

Profile managers: British Royals and Aristocrats WikiTree private message and Richard Ragland private message Profile last modified 29 Jun 2020 Created 5 Jul 2011

British Aristocracy Elias (Saye) de Say was a member of aristocracy in the British Isles. Join: British Royals and Aristocrats Project Discuss: EUROARISTO Biography It appears that his name was Elias [CP XIV:194], Elias, or Helias, not Ingram or Ingelram as the original CP III:335 had it.

Name: Elias (Ellis\Ingram) de SAY , Lord of Clun Ingram de Say, feudal Lord of Clun, Salop. [Burke's Peerage]

The Lordship of Clun in Shropshire belonged, temp. Stephen, to Ellis de Say, whose daughter and heir, Isabel, brought it to her husband, William FitzAlan, feudal Lord of Oswaldestre (ie. Oswestry) in that co., who d. abt 1210. . . . [Complete Peerage, III:335 as corrected by XIV:194]

Note: It appears that his name was Ellis [CP XIV:194], Elias, or Helias, not Ingram or Ingelram as the original CP III:335 had it. See notes under Isabel, the daughter. Also there is some question as to whether he was the son [Eyton], brother [Keats-Rohan], or no relation at all [Sanders] to Henry de Say.

NOTE: Chris Phillips, citing Keats-Rohan, has Elias as brother and heir of Henry (d. c1140), and both Elias & Henry were sons of Robert Picot de Sai of Clun. I have Elias as son of Henry, who is son of Robert. I would suppose that Elias may have been brother & heir of a Henry as well as son of a Henry, and that the two Henrys were reduced to one by Keats-Rohan.

The Lordship of Clun in Shropshire belonged, temp. Stephen, to Elias de Say, whose daughter and heir, Isabel, brought it to her husband, William FitzAlan, feudal Lord of Oswaldestre (ie. Oswestry) in that co., who d. abt 1210. . . . [Complete Peerage, III:335 as corrected by XIV:194]

Sources Burke's Peerage & Baronetage, 106th Edition, Charles Mosley Editor-in-Chief, 1999, Page: 1985, Text: Ingram de Say Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom, by G. E Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd, 2000, Page: III:335, XIV:194, Text: vol III stated "Ingram", but XIV corrected to Ellis de Say. Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com, Page: Chris Phillips, 10 Feb Complete Peerage 2nd ed III:335 as corrected by XIV:194 Keats-Rohan, Domesday Descendants, p.679 Keats-Rohan, (2000) Additions and Corrections to Sanders’s Baronies Prosopon Newsletter Sanders, English Baronies, p.113