Identifying religions in New Amsterdam

And totally off track ... I see that one of my favorite on line resources for colonial America just updated their pages, including their Dutch ancestry pages, here:

http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/gen/dutch/

OK, Erica....
- Project naming. I agree somewhat, the mind works by association - but it requires that you know what something stands for. Then again, I hate long project names. First settlers of Gravesend sounds great to me. Now, do we keep the New Netherland focus - time-wise (1609-1674)? I would, because it helps to focus. Plus, 1674 marks a definite change in the American colonial world.
- I have a note somewhere on the first tavern in New Amsterdam. I'll tell you when I bump into it :-)
- Thanks for that link about Dutch resources. However, we have all that and FAR MORE on the International Dutch Portal :-)

Tammy, here an idea... Let's set the templates for Settlements and Religions by focusing on Gravesend and Quakers, respectively. Given the role of Lady Moody, I think that both pages can easily cross-reference, and we'll find profiles more easily. That's easier than starting with templates for the larger entities (like Renselaerswijk and French Huguenots - no association between the two intended).

First Settlers of Gravesend, by definition, is a tiny time window: a snapshot of the first land allottment.

Check the Quaker projects, we might need a little more thought and some feedback from other curators on that. Quakers in New Jersey for instance is a big deal.

And of course Lady Moody is a Early American Heroine in my book!

I like short project names, too. I also think a time frame, such as 1609-1674 is very helpful.

I found a great Lady Moody anecdote: Lady Moody and Mary Tilton (my ancestress) went to a Baptist church, where they announced to the congregation that they didn't believe children or babies were condemned to hell just because they hadn't been baptized. I found another reference which would indicate they were taken to court as a result. I put this in Mary Tilton's About Me, along with links so I could find it easier (I have enough, I think, in Lady Moody's About Me, though I could easily include it in both).

Back to a very important subject: "beer". It's not something to talk about but to enjoy. That's said :-) I'm going to post a "beer" topic on FB New Amsterdam. So wait and see (and than go out for some.. if you still enjoy it lol).

@Jennie: Somebody did have to be brewing something in 17th century New York. Time for some well motivated research.

dont know if it adds something to this discussion about religions, but her a list of Baptisms 1639-1730:
http://longislandgenealogy.com/baptisms/baps.html
a lot of names in it that Georges posted on his project-page.

@ Jefffey I did the research maybe after my post you can try and taste the difference.... lol

Excellent list, jMu! I think we'll need to have a very specific section on the Research and Bibliography page to reference these lists. There are already some lists there.

About the beer thing (I'm more of a wine person myself, but beer is definitely not bad when it's hot)...
Jennie mentioned a Facebook page. We started it just 10 days ago, and it is meant to draw attention to our New Amsterdam projects on Geni (reaching out to a couple of million FB users is never bad ;-) ).
We're waiting to get a few more followers on Facebook, before starting the dialogue. Jennie is going to work on "Stories from New Amsterdam" and, boy, there are stories to be told - including the one about beer (but also about prostitutes, murders, love, Indians, politics.... - enough stories for a few decades!).
Here's the link to the Facebook page... http://www.facebook.com/pages/New-Amsterdam-Project/129761257113815

Bar: Wooden Horse Taverne?
Religion: Making a list of Huguenots first settlers
Beer or wine: Wine :-)

Good, Jennie! Now I'm wondering though... could there be a relationship between 'Wooden Horse' and the fact that one of the immigrant ships was named 'Brand van Troye' (Fire of Troy)? :-)

LOL now I understand the name! I thought for a bar "Wooden head" is more as it should be named... ;-)
But now there is a relation with the ship I say: aha!!!!

Well George in fact there is no connection with the name of the tavern and a ship LOL.
'The horse was not 'Wooden' but 'White' :-).. But probably called Wooden Horse for reasons. Riding the wooden horse was a punishment for soldiers and such for getting drunk:

"Another common punishment for soldiers (usually for rioting or drinking) was the riding the wooden horse. In New Amsterdam the wooden horse stood between Paerel street and the Fort, and was a straight, narrow, horizontal pole, standing twelve feet high. Sometimes the upper edge of the board or pole was acutely sharpened to intensify the cruelty. The soldier was set astride this board, with his hands tied behind his back. Often a heavy weight was tied to each foot, as was jocularly said, "to keep his horse from throwing him."

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/44/messages/1036.html

So I think many have seen and "enjoyed" the ride on the wooden horse more than they knew the name was the White Horse LOL

Folks- Here is a little of what I know about Anthony Jansen Van Salee. Anthony was born in Salee, Morocco, the son of Jan Jansen Van Haarlem and his Moroccan concubine. Jan converted to Islam and had several more wives beside the one he left behind in Holland. The same goes for his children. Jan was the head of the Barbary Pirates and sent many Europeans into slavery in the Arab world. Anthony was raised a Muslim and brought his Koran with him to New Amsterdam around 1630. Anthony and Grietje Reiniers were a quarrelsome couple. Grietje was the first prositute in New Amsterdam. Their daughter Annica married Thomas Southard, who is my 6th Great-Grandfather. They were driven out of New Amsterdam because of their constant fights with other citizens. If I remember correctly they ended up in Gravesend. Anthony's Koran is still here in the U.S. Know this because a family member sold it sometime in the 1940's. There were rumors that his brother Andrew would sail his pirate ship up the river to visit Anthony.

I wonder if there's an image of his Koran anywhere.

Indeed, Erica, this would probably be the oldest Koran in America. That would be a mighty find!

Well, I think it's not that difficult to find because it was long in the family:
"His Koran, in fact, was in a descendant's possession until about fifty years ago when, ignorant of its relevance to his family's history, he offered it for sale at auction".
But it would be nice!

http://www.riley-smith.com/hamish/document_category.php?cat=1

to get an idea of a Koran 17/18 th century... :-)

and other books...

Jennie,
Very cool!

Hey thanks Janice. Did you see I put a link on FB about Anthony van Salee? Maybe some more info you did not allready had... :-)

WOW WOW and WOW Jennie! What a great find!
I did some research myself, yesterday. Specifically about the story about what happened to Anthony van Salee's copy that Mary talked about. From the top of my head: Someone ended up with van Salee's copy, and sold it for £25 to a jewish bookdealer in New York. The price was £50, but to be paid in two installments. The bookdealer died before paying the second part. However, the Koran was already sold to someone else in the meantime. That's as far as I got.
Anyone wants to search further? This would probably be the oldest copy of the Koran in the Americas. Perhaps it is already found and we missed something. If not, tracing this copy would be a great story!

What you are talking about I put a link of it on our FB Geni page

GENHUBBARDDATA03
jimwilkworks.com

I have more stuff on that page

http://jimwilkworks.com/GENHUBBARDDATA03.html

It's not the oldest copy btw ..... but where did I read that? Read too much LOL

As a sidelight everyone, did you know the Muslims had come to America, shortly after 700 AD? Yes, they carved prayers into rocks in the Arizona/New Mexico area. See Barry Fell's books for pix.

Ok this may sound random and a bit ignorant, but i think it goes to show some of the misconceptions that exist about some of these early religions.
I recently heard a rumor that Hugenots when building a new home would take a child and bury them in the home's heart. This is so crazy and bizarre. Sounds a lot like anti-Hugenot propaganda to me.
Just goes to show how much our research can do just by finding out the truth and dispersing disparaging rumors.

It took a while, but I finally got the Gravesend project up and running. I knew going into it I had 1 set of gr grandparents among the first settlement of Gravesend, the Tiltons, who were friends of Lady Deborah Moody. But today I found I have a total of 3 sets of gr grandparents who were original settlers! And, they weren't related to each other.
Project link:
http://www.geni.com/projects/Early-Families-of-Gravesend-Long-Islan...

Interesting, Tammy! I had never heard of Gravesend. I had to go and read about it.