John I "Lackaland" of England (1166-1216)

Ofir, Found alittle more for you. Isabel Fitz Roy b. abt 1225,Prop. Kent,England. married abt. 12 July 1247. Maurice de Berkley. She died 7 July 1276/
Lorette de Dover b. Abt. 1228 , again Prob. Kent,England. m. William Marmion 1245.
Not a lot. Hope it's helpful.
Still have to check my New Eng Hist gen ref.
Judy

Ofir, Found alittle more for you. Isabel Fitz Roy b. abt 1225,Prop. Kent,England. married abt. 12 July 1247. Maurice de Berkley. She died 7 July 1276/
Lorette de Dover b. Abt. 1228 , again Prob. Kent,England. m. William Marmion 1245.
Not a lot. Hope it's helpful.
Still have to check my New Eng Hist gen ref.
Judy

That's ironic John I Lackaland is my 19th great gfather but Robert DeVere is my 22nd great gfather...

Ofir,,, you said issue no t his children but issue means a person's children. At least in one instrances is how the children of John Lackland are referred to So I would presume Fitz Roy's children would also be called issued. So I am not sure what you want to know about his "issue" Judy

sorry that perhaps I wasn't clear enough for you

I meant that we've discussed the problem of having 2 Richard Fitzroy with different death dates. this was a bit of a mystery since there is no clear answer bout that in online sources

is this more understandable?

Thanks

Well, they did say about so that may give you some leeway. They seem to do that when exact date is not available. Are the dates that far off? I know I've seen some profiles where they say abot example 1550 of 1570. In other word they have no idea! And neither do I . At least I now know you were referring to the issue of two Fitz Roys not Fitz Roy's issue. All in the way one interprets the sentence. Makes me think back to high school English and the teacher wanted us to interrupt a sentence. Everyone but me interrupted it one way but the teacher said if you read it in the context I did, I was correct in my interpretation as was the rest of the class. Soory ,I can't be of more help. Judy

Well, they did say about so that may give you some leeway. They seem to do that when exact date is not available. Are the dates that far off? I know I've seen some profiles where they say abot example 1550 of 1570. In other word they have no idea! And neither do I . At least I now know you were referring to the issue of two Fitz Roys not Fitz Roy's issue. All in the way one interprets the sentence. Makes me think back to high school English and the teacher wanted us to interrupt a sentence. Everyone but me interrupted it one way but the teacher said if you read it in the context I did, I was correct in my interpretation as was the rest of the class. Soory ,I can't be of more help. Judy

I did know about the double meaning and was trying to avoid it, so perhaps didn't quite succeeded in that .also you have to consider that English is only my second language.

one Richard Fitzroy appear in many sources as born about 1190
and died 1246
the other one appear as born about 1186 (not that far off) and died 1270

there are at least 2 sources that offer a logical explanation for this and I tend to agree with that .
since it wasn't that common in those days to live that long, Richard Fitzroy I
son of John Lackland, died 1246 and had a son,that Richard Fitzroy II that died 1270

Ofir,

Can you assume that Richard Fitzroy ll is the son of Richard Fitzroy l? I can't. It could easily have been two different Richard Fitzroy's, both sons of Lackland. Or of another King.

Have you checked Medlands? They offer the best arguments for and against I would think.

Interesting how his profile name keeps changing. Now it's "John Plantagenet King of England." I could swear earlier it was John "Lackland" Plantagenet, King of England.

Erica I think you are correct about John Lackland.

Ofir Erica could be on the right tract with Richard Fitz Roy. Could be a son or another brother altho in the list I found of the over 20 children that John Lackland had no other Richard Fitz Roy was listed, however, there were 7 other male children ,of John Lackland , listed . All with the last name of Fitz Roy. perhapes one of them had a Richard. Just a thought! The only Richard that Richard fitz Roy had was Richard de Dover, evedently he used Rose, his wife, Judy de Dover's name for the children.

Ofir how you doing with your Fotz Roy hunt? Judy

Ofir how you doing with your Fotz Roy hunt? Judy

Ofir how you doing with your Fotz Roy hunt? Judy

Eric anything new on John Lackland.

"John Plantagenet King of England."
is a lot better and more accurate – historically then John "Lackland" Plantagenet, King of England.
"Lackland" Was a French name for him- not English.

I find all these different names to be very interesting. Since those names are closer to the last of the indo-european languages in both France and Britain.

Not only are they interesting and often descriptive of the person, they help me keep people straight. When I see "Lackland" for example, I know exactly who I'm reading about.

Except King Henry 11 was French speaking ,in fact refused to speak English. He wanted to get rid of the English language and almost managed to do it. Remember William the Conqueror was French and most of the nobles of England and Scotland came with him when he invaded so they were all French. So I imagine John Lackland is correct. I recent read that Plantagenet isn't a last name. It's just used in connection with Geoffrey, Henry 2nd and so on.. Judy

Except King Henry 11 was French speaking ,in fact refused to speak English. He wanted to get rid of the English language and almost managed to do it. Remember William the Conqueror was French and most of the nobles of England and Scotland came with him when he invaded so they were all French. So I imagine John Lackland is correct. I recent read that Plantagenet isn't a last name. It's just used in connection with Geoffrey, Henry 2nd and so on.. Judy

Names like "Lackland" and "Beauclerc" are useful to identify profiles prone to mix up because they share a same name and French (Norman) was the predominant language in England for years especially amongst the Nobles. Plantagenet was a family nickname adopted from Henry II onwards. It was signified a sprig of broom flower, a symbol for the family.

I thought "lackland" was English for "lacks land" (that is, lacks the right to rule). Does it have a French meaning or derivation?

Yes that 's right. And Henry aways wore a spreg in his hat. And Harald , , You are right Lackland did mean lack of land. When King Henry 2nd gave lands to all his sons , John was only two years old so nothing was assigned to him. Thus he became known as John Lackland.However, at age 10m his father made him Lord of Ireland. Henry Beauclec was called Beauclerc because he could neither read nor write.
Curtmtle or Shortcoat was what they called King Henry as he was squat and square and freckled faced, unkempth and Grubby.

John I "Lackaland" of England (1166-1216),
I believe his son was John "Lackalande",
written as such to distinguish.
Father ~R?"Lackland".

King Henry IV was known as Bolingbroke/, King Henry VI known as The Blushing King. and King Edward was killed in the Tower of London , one of the reasons was he was a homosexual and his death was not pleasant . a hot rod shoved not in a nice place. Saw this on the history Chanel but they didn't elaberate but this new book I have does. I guess he had a series of males including a father and son team. Wife was not happy with him. Still can't find where I saw King with nickname Lackalande. Interesting the different nicknames and how and why they got them .Still don't know why Bertha was called Bertha Goosefoot among other lables.

King Henry IV was known as Bolingbroke/, King Henry VI known as The Blushing King. and King Edward was killed in the Tower of London , one of the reasons was he was a homosexual and his death was not pleasant . a hot rod shoved not in a nice place. Saw this on the history Chanel but they didn't elaberate but this new book I have does. I guess he had a series of males including a father and son team. Wife was not happy with him. Still can't find where I saw King with nickname Lackalande. Interesting the different nicknames and how and why they got them .Still don't know why Bertha was called Bertha Goosefoot among other lables.

Have a look in Wikipedia. Lackland is written up there. Edward II was murdered at Berkeley Castle, near Bristol. Can't find the Blushing King though.

Jonathan: King Edward the 1st (Longshanks) son of King Henry the 3rd, is that who you were thing of of/

@Judith, I believe Henry Beauclerc was actually well read and educated; that's the meaning behind his nickname of Beauclerc (scholarly). Henry Curtmantle was called so because he favored the short cloaks worn by the French rather than the longer cloaks worn by the English. It had nothing to do with his looks. Where did you hear/read about his physical description? Only asking since I've never read about that.
Geoffrey of Anjou (husband of Matilda, granddaughter of William the Conqueror, daughter of Henry I Beauclerc) was the first to wear the sprig of broom (planta genista), from which the name Plantagenet derived.