Mayflower Passengers

David,

But from other sources the winslow tree site has the order of marriage incorrect, nor does it list Eleanor Newton's children with John Adams. I believe it was:

marriage 1. Unknown Newton, no children
marriage 2. John Adams, children James, John, Susan
marriage 3. Winslow, children Kenelm, Eleanor, Nathaniel, Job

I want *one* correct site for Winslow to validate. :)

Elenor Winslow

My own research agrees with the marriage order that you listed, and not the Winslow site.

I have found the winslowtree site to be pretty accurate on the WINSLOW data that is there, but the data is often very incomplete for anything other than the direct Winslow blood line.

I've looked at many, and winslowtree.com is the best I've found (meaning it agrees with my own research the closest) for people with family names of WINSLOW who lived in this (1500 to 1800) timeframe.

David K.,

That is exactly the kind of interpretation I was hoping to evoke with my question, thank you!

It goes to show you: the family sites can be very good for the specific surname line, but when it comes to a marriage you may need more than one site. Until we make geni the **one good source** :)

I am now correcting my correction and looking into Ellen Newton as being a daughter of Peter Wardon / Warden. Found a good family site for that family:

http://nichirenscoffeehouse.net/gen/worden.htm

Everyone, you have to be careful with internet sites,especially "family" ones.
Errors are being copied from one site to another..

Indeed DLD!

That's why I'm hoping to evoke a "validated" list of family sites. I know the Alden kin site is good. Do you know of any others?

Here are two of my favorite family sites. I find them both to be very accurate, as well as more complete than most.

Colby Family:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~colby/colbyfam/

Morrill Family:
http://www.morrillonline.com/

Thank you David K. This is very helpful.

There's a family history archive here:

http://www.lib.byu.edu/fhc/index.php

I think it might be interesting to search on each of the main Mayflower families and find the PDF files.

I need some help or advice with one of the son's of Resolved White, "Mayflower" Passenger

Samuel White, Sr. had a wife named Rebecca. There is a theory that she was Rebecca Lapham. So, both Rebecca's have come together into one profile: Rebecca Washburn

There is another theory that Samuel White's wife Rebecca is Rebecca Greene. So, to make matters worse, Rebecca Lapham, who was a real person maried to John Washburn, has the parents of Rebecca Greene.

Tree:
http://www.geni.com/family-tree?ref=ph#6000000006441084023

Here is a quote that I found:
Now put to rest by a subsequent articles in NEHGR and TAG, NEHGR 115:83 questioned a marriage to Rebecca Lapham and the accuracy of Bridgewater VR to 1850, which gives marriage and cemetery information for this marriage. This study, proposed her to be possibly the wife of Samuel White who was born (or baptized) on the same day as she and and whose wife Rebecca is believed to have died in 1711. While the articles does not conclude that Rebecca Lapham was not John's wife, it asks for the conclusion that Rebecca Lapham as John's wife is not proven.

That is here: http://www.mayflowerfamilies.com/cooke/d43.htm

I'm not a member of NEHGR, so can't look it up.

For accuracy in the fact that we don't know, I'd like to see Rebecca White and Rebecca Lapham split into two people and given a curator note.

What does everyone think?

Thank you

Hey Brendan,

I don't have a comment for you about Rebecca White as yet but I just got excited about something else.

Because of the "documents" discussion I uploaded (actually just the URL) Samuel Fuller's will to his profile. It's already been viewed and got a comment!

We need to *do* these!!!

OK I need to depress myself with Elder William Brewster's tangle some more ...

A biographical reference book:

Haxtun, Annie A. Signers of the Mayflower Compact. New York: Reprinted from the Mail and express, 1896. Print.

Before the passengers went ashore, they drew up an instrument of self-government for the little band to replace the original patent. This immortal Mayflower Compact was modeled on the Covenant by which the Pilgrims had lived in Leyden for more than a decade and was later hailed by John Quincy Adams, among others, as the first example in modern times of a social compact or system of government instituted by voluntary agreement by men of equal rights. It was signed by all of the adult male passengers on the 11th of November (Old Style) 1620.

The Mayflower Compact was signed in the cabin of the Mayflower, November 21, 1620 (New Style). It was signed by forty-one of those who made the voyage. Lines of descent have been proven from twenty-four of these men. Richard Moore and Henry Samson were too young to sign.

http://www.ncmayflower.org/mayflowercompact.htm

Acceptable proof of lineage for membership in the Society of Mayflower Descendants is listed here:

http://www.ncmayflower.org/proof.htm

Dear Brendan:
You have surely started a highly ambitious project. I am sure that you have found plenty on the internet and other sources.

I like the way that you have confined this particular effort to the vital statistics that give us a little handle to help remember and identify these very special people who came to this country . They wished to have more freedom, but
the trip came with great responsibilities.

It is continually amazing to me that so many of my ancestors were prominent in government and military matters as well as establishing homes and jobs for themselves and their families.

My Mayflower families were Alden, Mullins, Fuller, Warren, and Brewster.
Are you connected to any of this selection?

Ethel Johanna Myers

Brendan:

It just occurred to me that you might consider adding different pages for
each generation of descendants.

If your idea works, you may have a mammoth amount of folks joining the
presentation. It might quickly become swamped in such massive amounts
of data.

Good luck with the project. You have certainly made a fine start in the Wiki.

More power to you.

Ethel

Brendan,

Your efforts might work. I have run into several cases where there actually was a second wife or husband.

This development certainly changes the picture that we have of such families.

Ethel

Hi Ethel,
I can trace the family back to the White family, but I'm not sure about the others. According to Geni, I'm connected to Myles Standish, but there are mistakes in the line to the point where I would have to assume that we're not connected at all.

The passengers were quite a bunch. You're right that many of them were very prominent and many many of their descendants were very prominent.

Interesting idea about the different pages. I'm not sure what you mean by the different generations. Would you want to have pages for the different families that came over? We could start a discussion for each of the families, like a Mayflower - Alden family discussion. The url to the discussion could go on the wiki and all of the descendants of the Alden's could check in on the discussion. Could be fun.

Erica,
I can't fine the url or comment that you're referring to.

I need curator help!!! A merge was made incorrectly (I think) but I have no idea how to identify who was merged, and I doubt I have the access to correct it even if I could find it.

Robert Carver, my 10th great grandfather (Robert Carver of the Plymouth Colony) was Gov John Carter's brother, according to family history as well as Gov John's profile (Governor John Carver, "Mayflower" Passenger).

Robert's profile says he was the son of Isaac Carver and Katherine Leggett-Carver White. Katherine's MP (Katharine Carver, "Mayflower" Passenger) it says she was married to both Gov John and Isaac.

Katherine was not married to Isaac, at least not that I can find.

Brandon's wiki site says Gov John and Kathleen had no living children.

I have also lost my connection to Priscilla Mullins on my tree (http://www.geni.com/family-tree?ref=ph#6000000009959528400).

Can a curator review and resolve the merge issues? How do I reconnect to Priscilla, whom I had entered on my own tree prior to any merging.

Thanks.

Thanks.

Brandon...

From BYU library concerning Miles Standish:

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/FH31&C...

Hi everyone,

The Mayflower passenger profiles are a bit messy at the moment as we consolidate in all the duplicates. There are going to be some awful errors which will be temporary. Please don't worry: we do have the correct info and we'll get it in geni right.

What will help a LOT is to post the correct genealogical information in the Master Profile for each passenger (then their wives ... then their parents .... then their children) in this format at the top of the "overview" tab:

Vital Statistics
Parents
Marriages
Children
Weblinks
Notes
Citations

Just like Brendan brought up about Rebecca White, I am finding that Mary Brewster's parentage is unverified. Result: three different fathers for her, all with *some* validity based on theories, but none currently provable.

So let's arrive at a standard way of reflecting "unverified parentage" in geni for the Mayflower passengers. I am concerned that floating a "curator" note is just not enough to help prevent the error in the future. I don't like making "placeholder" profiles but it really might be the best solution.

What do you all think?

Yesterday I realized that the Brewsters are my second cousins, which is news to my direct family. I don't have it link by link as yet -- working on getting the Brewster line straight first -- but my guess is that my connection to Mayflowers is through Elder Crandall of Rhode Island, whose daughter married a Ross ancestor of mine.

Erica,
It's quite possible that some profiles will have to be locked. I wish we could be identified when someone changes a profile. Let's work on the overview tab and fixing everything, like you said, and then we'll take it from there.

Anita,
Thanks for the link. Geni has him as my 19th great grandfather, which is just wrong. Going up the tree from me to him, I found a father that was born 250 years after the son.

There is still more work to be done, but these profiles have come a long way in the last couple of weeks!

Brendan,

The "revisions" tab in a profile reflects changes to data with the ID -- which could be that of a collaborator.

Eventually geni will have Wikipedia style "revisions / reverts."

While we're working on Mayflowers I'd rather not lock until we've got a clean profile going for everyone and all the existing duplicates merged in and corrected.

A "one page per family lineage" sheet on the Geni User Wiki will be a really helpful reference guide.

Still blown away about my own connection to the Brewsters!!!

My Brewster path is through an unverified parent of Mary Brewster. However the connecting ancestor is Sir Anthony Hungerford, MP, of Black Bourton, who also connects me to many prominent people, up and down the geni stream. One day I need to make sure all those links are right ... but probably not until after Thanksgiving. :)

Erica,
What would the "one page per family lineage" page have on it? Would it be a listing of each generation coming from each of the families? I can put it together, but I'm having trouble conceptualizing it. Could you give me a partial example for one of the families?

Yes, it would be say an 8 generation ancestor / lineage report, and eventually hyperlinked to the geni profiles. A quick chart if you will. Each family would need to validate and source their own lines any further.

For instance, I would leave it to you to see if this is a reasonable reference:

http://www.genealogy.com/users/p/a/r/Diana-Darrah-Parker/FILE/0001t...

I'm keeping my hands of the other Samuel Fullers Erica. Have you done a Master Profile for both Samuel Fullers? I only saw one.

I'm in the process of applying to the Mayflower Society and you'll need actual birth/death/marriage/divorce documents for the recent (last 3) generations, which makes a lot of sense. Prior to that, they may accept other sources such as census records and references in credible sources.

I'm also related to the Brewsters by marriage only through the Emerson - Lathrop - Fuller - Williams - Gidding lineage.

Hatte,

Maybe for Brendan's wiki you could put together a list of "credible sources" meeting Mayflower definitions of such? I use the citation maker at the oclc.org for books, and most can be accessed through google books anyway.

Don't look at the Brewster line right now, it is such a mess. Oye Oye. The cheer myself up I'm finishing off the Winslows, which thanks to David K., is looking very good.

Cutting and a pasting - just a "cross-posting fool" on a Saturday night:

Hi Erica:

The three sources I use for my Mayflowerchild are:

1. The Thomas Rogers Society
http://www.thomasrogerssociety.com

2. The Richmond Family Ancestry site
http://www.richmondancestry.org

3. The Mayflower Database by Lori Steadman:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~steadman/

And if I need to verify specific events or locations, I try to find sources that appear reputable (British History Online, etc.). If I'm desperate, I'll refer to Wikipedia - emphasizing the sources they used (or lack thereof, if there are none).

That page on the White's has tons of info. I created a lineage page for White and put a link from the main wiki. Let me know what you think and if anyone has any suggestions. Is it good as is or should anything be moved around?

I also put a section for The Mayflower Society on the wiki. It may need more than I put. I just wanted to get it started.

Sources for specific families can go on the individual wiki pages. Ben, those are great links. I put them in the sources section of the wiki

If anyone wants to edit a section that has already been created, go to the section on the wiki and click "edit" to the right of the heading. Type what you want in the box and then click "Save Changes" at the bottom.

Brendan

You have some good ideas.

Keep on truckin'

Maybe we can catch up and use some of these systems that you
are creating.

The tangled lines are mind boggling.

Ethel Johanna Myers