Public/Private

It's like many "victims" hear: "You ought to have checked a lot deeper and a lot wider and THEN you would have understood it all was nothing but a froud. And as you did not do that you are yourself responsible to being cheated or rubbed or ...."

As the Geni-sight now works I have looked for other possibilities to do something meaningful in genealogy. There are too many problems in this sight and there are so many things possible to do. To me this year at Geni has shown possibilities and learnt that they have to be realized somewhere else.

Do you know who does belong to the 60 and more millions? One good example is Odin/Wotan himself.

Odin, {Norse God}.

There are all the old vikings like Snivil and the dead unknown people from Anundshög (Västeras, Sweden).
I also are related to most of the pharaons in Egypt.
Once you have realised this bullshit you wonder why did you start with geni.com? There are to many private webpages with relations to Jesus, Kung David, Mohamed and God himself.
Do we really need this "worldtree"? We know that it is not working and a lot of people are abusing the network with fakes and jokes.

The " worldtree" is simply a business idee of a new manager who is a looser. The" facebook of the dead" does not generate ads and profit.

Let everybody be private or public.

Well Geerald, although I'm living in Sweden I don't know of any connections to any vikings and I've not drowned myself into these parts of the World Tree. I'm not even connected to God, Pharao or mr Elvis Presley.

I found the idea of the World Tree interesting as it's possible to be connected to any other of the living world today. Some historical happenings are just telling about the Kings and the Queens but concerned a lot of ordinary people like me. 6000 persons, complete families, left from Denmark and Scandinavia to become Mormones. About a million swedisg persons left for "The promised land" USA in the middle ena end of 1800:s. 200 years earlier many swedish and finnish left for New Sweden and just disappeard but started new lives in US. Actually built USA or parts of US. Without history it's impossible to understand life today. What would Sweden have been without all the immigrants from Germany? What would the World tree look like if we at least complete with what we know?

Yes, the World Tree is a business idea built on a non-fair concept. As the "private" sector is as large as it is I think it would be good if the "Standing alone"-trees actually pays for that part of the concepts coasts. Just as it takes a lot of time from others paying for 60+ public profiles. 1 USD for each completely private and 50 cents for each profile showing but not being touchable for any other but the owner. (The owner is not Geni!)

Geni is getting more and more like a joke. Who wants to be related to all the Kings and Queens of history and all the fairytale goblins - and why? The “World Tree” is in my mind nowadays like a cock-and-bull story. Probably we soon are related to Donald Duck, Goofy and Superman in this spectacular tree.

Agneta, I think you have the basic ideas of Geni in mind when you refer to work that could be done in the tree that is historically correct and let us learn more about our history, nation- and worldwide. But when do I know if the facts are genuine or when they are false, faked by someone who desperately wants to be related to some aristocracy.

I think that the basic idea for this tree was a very good try to extend the boundries of genealogy. But as I see it now, it´s wrecked without sence of truth or historical relevance. Can the wreck be mended? Why should I put any effort in getting my facts straight when others fabricate whatever data they like to reach their goals.

Kenneth you might be be interested in this project

http://www.geni.com/projects/Descents-from-Antiquity/12283

Thank you Kenneth for putting it more straight and forward. We can be quite sure about some things in our close history, but of course there is many things even close in time that are uncertain. During the last week I've found two children to an unmarried man who on his last day in life in his testamony told about his son and his daugther. We have not put these two children into Geni yet as we have not read the testamony. Yet.

At the same time why should we put them into Geni as they are born within the time were anyone could be kept private? I don't feel for giving and paying and find that others are not working on the same terms.

Much time today I've been looking around in one part of my closer family tree, together with another Geni-user and a possible new user. Still it's sensitive and we have to take care of the personal and private issues. The young researchers cannot be engaged into this mess of "genealogy" and told they should rather start with something else but what they are actually interested in.

I am very frustrated about private profiles and I think they should be reduced in GENI. Geni could sell a Treemaker type of software for those that do not want to share information. On the other hand I think the world wide tree is one of the interesting things about GENI. I do not think that entities that are not real should not be put on GENI unless there is convincing historical evidence they actually lived. With regard to the Pharoahs, they are real so I think they should be part of the tree and what makes any of us think we could not be related to them. I do not necessarily think this is b.s. I think you have to go back in history when you find these connections and study to see how they might have occurred. It may be very real. If you know nothing about history its just a pile of names that seems like an unlikely fairy tale story.

Vicki, Agneta, etc. - Geni has been very clear that its purpose is for families sharing privately with other members of their families, and that profiles can be kept private out to 4th cousin and back to 3rd great-grandfather. This is why many, many folks joined Geni. Stop trying to destroy it, and instead focus on the World Tree back beyond that level!!

It clearly states and I quote "The ultimate goal of Geni is to create a single, accurate family tree that connects all of our users, with no duplicates. Over time, as duplicate trees have been merged together over and over again, the tree has become, quite honestly, a mess. We are fully committed to building the most comprehensive and accurate family tree in the world" Keeping private trees stymies this effort. But GENI allows certain privacy settings. But it seems clear its mission statement and purpose is to build a world wide tree, not to allow a platform for a bunch of families to load restricted trees on it, even if they can.

Lois, I think what bothers many people is that there are many duplicates in that range of 4th cousins. Maybe Great Grandma had six kids, but Geni has nine. Those extra three are "private". You know who they are, but you can't merge them.

The debate rages back and forth, but it seems to me if someone is blocking a merge inside their privacy zone, where only relatives will be able to see the data, they aren't really doing genealogy. They are just carving out a little niche. It's those who make the connections who are really doing genealogy.

Of course, in many cases the problem is that the people blocking the merge don't know it. They abandoned their account ages ago.

"Of course, in many cases the problem is that the people blocking the merge don't know it. They abandoned their account ages ago."

This to me is the issue. I just merged in a tree with a private profile in the 1770s. It's a mistake, not a privacy zone.

Vicki - What are you quoting from when you say, "It clearly states and I quote "The ultimate goal of Geni is to create .... " - please provide the link, so I can evaluate that source. (in other words, what is the "It" that says that??)

As of July 31, 2011 – Geni Facebook (geni.com on Facebook) Info Page said
"Company Overview Geni is a free fun tool for:
* Building your family tree.
* Preserving your family history.
* Scrapbooking the lives of you, your kids, and your whole family.
* Remembering loved ones.
* Staying in touch with your family"

Lois,
Is there a precedence where a statement made on facebook can be used to bind a corporations behaviour online?

Eldon - I think the fact that the MP for the younger Obama child DOES NOT come up on a Geni-search shows that it is a very good example to be using.

Alex - I was just giving an example of a contrasting quote from Geni, along with the source for it. I think a corporation's statement on their official facebook page as to what the Company Overview is can be taken as an indication of their policy / outlook. Certainly more so than an unsourced quote, which, being unsourced, for all I know may be totally bogus or just from a project or other discussion, and so not an official commentary at all.

Here is the link to the page.

http://wiki.geni.com/index.php/Big_Tree

Private User Both of the Obama children come up on a Geni search both as MPs and other private profiles which may not have birthdays.
I don't care one way or another as they are public persona's.

This discussion is never going to come to a resolution and I don't plan on wasting my time on it any more. I have made my opinions known and stick by them.

Lois I do not necessarily think these are contrasting, they to me are additive. All are true. The statements you provide though are pretty generic and lots of people can read different things into them. And they can use geni in different ways. I for example rarely ever put pictures up or other things even if I could, maybe I would choose to not use this feature.

Well Lois, as Eldon and many others here say: This discussion is never going to come to a resolution. And why not?

I bought the World Tree idea and could give my family-tree and when that is done, since we are several descendants and other Geni-users helping, we are all able to do other things. Why so? Well we can all add information about others we are not genetically connected to and help each other outside the close family and by that work towards the World Tree. I know the idea is just a goal. A parade goal, but although a goal for the sight Geni.

So why chose Geni for keeping a private connection within the close family extended to 1790? That will sort out the big emigration from Sweden to USA in the 1800:s. If interested in kings and notabilities even the murder of king Gustaf III would fall out from Geni. The complete project of "Mormone pioneers" will fall out from Geni. The New Sweden project will be left. But none of the Victims of the Holocaust will be public. In my point of view that's the most moral sane thing i can think of, since every single person murdered in the holocaust will not be named on Geni. Everyone in Europe and USA knows for sure they (who?) were killed.

And Lois way of thinking leads us to make that a private matter, as all the victims was killed so late in historical time!!!

I don´t think that using a backward termonilogy for genealogy is the right way to go. To say that you might be a relative to someone and therefore take that as a trouth, is like saying that a person might have been involved in a crime and therefore could be judged for it.

If we want to have a serious genealogy tree as near to the truth as possible, why don´t you put all the goblins and Pharaons in a special tree where you state that this is not in any means genealogically correct? If in the future one agrees that some lines are correct, then put them back on the world tree.

As it is today you don´t know where the facts end and the fiction starts in your genealogy-tree. This in my mind gives Geni a bad reputation.

Eldon - I see both Obama children come up now in a Geni search. They were not doing so before.

I checked both on Sept. 17, and just before posting my comment to you yesterday. On Sept. 17, I believe Alex also confirmed he was not seeing Sasha on the geni-search: http://www.geni.com/discussions/78981?msg=817913

I wonder if someone went in and changed the code because of this discussion, or what the explanation is.

Vicki - yes, you are correct, if Holocaust Victims have known living relatives, especially connected to them on Geni, then I believe it should be up those relatives whether the Holocaust Victims have a Public or a Private Profile.

oops - Agneta and Vicki - my apologies - it is Agneta's comments about the Holocaust Victims I am agreeing with above, not Vicki's.

Vicki - thanks for the link for your quote. Also, glad to see you said,
"I do not necessarily think these are contrasting, they to me are additive. All are true."

no problemo.

Vicki - continuing - Re: "lots of people can read different things into them" - so true, and not just the statements I quoted.

In the statement you quoted, "The ultimate goal of Geni is to create a single, accurate family tree ...." - 'ultimate' is an adjective meaning "being or happening at the end of the process; final" -- so to me that sentence is letting us know that when Geni is finished, this is how it would be -- it is not saying it is the 'most import goal' or the only goal or etc. To me, Geni's decisions to let folks make relatives out to 4th cousins and back to 3rd great-grandparents private and to require permission to merge into separate Trees speaks to Geni's commitment to what I think of as the goal of Privately sharing family info with our family members -- and when we - all of us on this Earth - have reached the point where we trust one another, etc, then we will probably be willing to do all those merges and reach that 'ultimate goal', at least for all folks we can find info on. But I see nothing in that statement that says or suggests folks should be Forced To Merge or Forced to Make Profiles within that Privacy Zone Public or etc. Achieve the goal by creating and building Trust and Good Will.

Well my opinion is the two goals (as Lois sees it - I see as one) collide at a certain date point. It is absurd to keep public historic information private on a collaborative site. And read the queries, particularly for those of us with murdered relatives. We are desperate to find each other. The Shoah studies are dedicated to honoring, remembering, connecting. Every scrap of information, every clue, is precious.

I agree the way GENI works does allow people to have private profiles and as many as they want. I do not think there will be a time when we all trust people on GENI because we really do not know them. So you have to make some decisions. I see no harm in publishing info regarding my deceased relatives and also some info on my own family who are living. As long as addresses, phone numbers, social security or other private infor is not there I do not care. Actually a clever person could probably find this information on certain website already if they wanted to find it so I am not sure what risk Geni presents to me.

There's nothing I've put in private profiles that isn't publicly available information anyway. :)

I have found beautiful obit.write ups and photographs, of 5th, and 6th cousins, that I have never met, on the Findagrave site.
I removed the photographs from the profiles on Geni, as I thought the closer family members may not care to have them posted.
However, Erica makes a great point that it is public information, available on the Findagrave or elsewhere, that was posted by a close family member.
I have mixed feelings and do not want to be bold, forward or do anything improper.
Is there written "rules of thumb"? I do not want to ruffle feathers.

The rule of thumb is that no one can agree on a rule of thumb.
In that regard Geni is no different to life in general :)
If you were posting photos and obits of MY 5th and 6th cousins i would think that was wonderful as I have no idea what kind of people they were.