Mareen Duvall, his wives, and his children need a massive clean-up

We still have multi profiles for Elizabeth Jacob -Duvall and Mareen Duvall: the younger. There is even a few places where Mareen " the younger" is his own father?? I can't fix these today as I need to get to work. And many of these profiles are tied to other profiles that have "locks" on the profiles, thus you can not merge them.
I have always thought that there were some strange leads as to whom our eldest Mareen Duvall's parents were. And we do need to deal with that. But right now I would like to at least see the merge problems solved in the profiles for the family here in the states. Mareen Duvall's children....that needs to be worked on first. And the Duvall books are a good read, I am trying to get though mine now.....when I have time..

I am glad that we are all dealing with this now, as it is long over due.

later...

Terri, if you see multiple profiles, it is often due to a pending merge somewhere nearby in the tree. Usually it means we're waiting for someone to accept a request to collaborate one one profile so we can then merge all their duplicates.

If you see problems with the father/son being mixed up, please point out the specific profiles at issue. That will help me solve the problem. I don't see any issues with any of the Mareens parents right now.

I am trying to separate Mark Jeffrey Rosenblum's profiles out. He is on the non merging list here:
http://www.geni.com/discussions/6000000009376219330
If you are merging in this tree, PLEASE CHECK the list to make sure the profiles you are merging are not people who refuse to collaborate. If the profiles belong to him or another on that list, skip it, and I will try and separate it out. It looks like he has one profile that is shared with other collaborators -- Jacob Duvall -- and this is the source of the problems. I think I should be able to separate off most of the rest of his profiles.

Another person not collaborating is Judith Anne Davis. She has a lot of profiles for this family. Please send her requests explaining what we are doing. Maybe that will encourage cooperation. If we get no reply I will try to do the same for her profiles next week.

Private User:

The books are out of print, and are fairly expensive through resellers. I'm working on finding a copy of each in a reasonable price range.

Is there any discussion of The Immigrant's lineage in either of the two books listed on the Duvall Society's site?

I have contacted Geni Support in hopes that they will untangle the knot that Mark Jeffrey Rosenblum's private historical profiles have created.

I should get a response by tomorrow (the 21st).

Woo! Mark Rosenblum just added me to his family group. We can finally clean this up!

Me too...I had sent him a nice note showing him how we are related.

Robert, Terri: I would suggest ya'll join the Collaboration Pool: http://www.geni.com/discussions/6000000008539319639

I suspect this will be a big help to both of ya'll.

Jason P Herbert

Private User:

Thanks, man. :-)

@Robert Grant Brünner I think I got my copies of both books at the gift shop at Marietta (http://www.pghistory.org/MariettaMansion.html). I could be wrong though. I can't remember what they cost.

Private User:

I never did get an answer. I probably didn't ask the question properly:

Do the Duvall books have any discussion about the parents of Mareen Duvall "The Immigrant"?

The Excavations book has roughly a paragraph about his descendants speculating that he may have come from Brittany.

Here is a quote from "Mareen Duvall of Middle Plantation":
"Much traditional and imaginable qualities have been at play concerning the immediate and remote ancestors of Mareen Duvall of Middle Plantation--but insofar as this research has been carried out, no conclusive nor even "thread" proof has been found of his immediate forbears."

I couldn't have said it better. Now if somebody wants to go to France and start digging through parish records that may or may not exist (keep in mind that he was probably born during the 30 Years War, and we don't know exactly where he was born), and they find something concrete and are willing to provide that evidence to others, then I will believe that we finally know the parents of Mareen Duvall. Until then...

I'd like to get a concensus about breaking the connection between Mareen and his alleged parents.

Should we consult a curator? Private User? Private User?

Robert,

I think a curator will likely self assign themselves to this thread and question now that you've bumped it to the top.

What you want to do:

1. make sure the evidence is clear in the overview tab including citing genealogical articles
2. gather descendant consensus on this thread
3. make sure all dups are gathered in and merged together FIRST as far as permissions take you, with a curator able to do the rest
4. prepared "placeholder profiles" such as Mareen Duvall "The Immigrant's" UNKNOWN father and Mareen Duvall "The Immigrant's" UNKNOWN mother

I'm a ninth cousin (so far ... ) so it is more likely a closer descendant is already among the curator crew.

I know one thing: I have repeatedly posted on this profile that the parents and place of birth are unknown and somebody has repeatedly erased it. I have repeatedly created placeholder unknown father and mother profiles and people have repeatedly merged them into one or the other of these fictitious parents. I am very much in favor of having this fixed.

I'm testing out a "curator note" on another profile that says: Parents are not known. This should help.

Do you think that it is fair to say that if we don't get a dissenting opinion in this thread by friday, we can agree that there is consensus to remove Mareen Duvall "The Immigrant"'s parents?

I know that those of you who are posting on this feed are like me...or I hope that you are if you are messing in this blood line, you are one of the many GGGGG...grandchildren, like I am. That said...I am not comfortable with you "deleting or removing" anything. I know that there are those in my family, manly older relatives that will flip out if you do that...I really don't feel like hearing it, nor getting the notes off this site about the fact that you did this. I know that we are all part of this "big tree thing", but there are still many of us on here that ended up in the big tree and did not realize it had happened until it was too late and are trying to make the best of it. So yes, we do need to clean up this tree, but we still have work on cleaning it up in the states before we pick on the "Grandpa Duvall" and where he was or was not born. I wish I had the time and money to just take off a month and go to France and track him down and put and end to all of this fuss but I don't. So for now, leave it alone or there are those like me, who will have to find a way to detach from the big tree. Until you can prove or disprove anything...leave it alone and work on what we can. You are opening a wasp nest if you all push this!
: )

Just curious, Terri:

Why do you/your family want completely unproven, uncited genealogical information in the tree? From the discussion we've had here, it's shown that nothing at all is known about his parents.

If we ever found out who his parents actually are, it would only be a couple clicks to link them up again.

Breaking the relationship wouldn't delete any profile information. It would just allow for more accurate searches. For example, I'm in the big tree a couple of different ways. I can't see how I'm related to someone in a more reliable branch because I almost always see how I am related to the person through the dubious pre-Mareen path.

Ok Robert, I get what you are saying. I too am connected in more then a few ways to the "big tree". I am just worried what fall out we will have if we let you do this. There are more then just the few of us on this feed in this family tree. We need to contact all of the managers in the family line before you do something like that or it could get messy. If you do that, get all on board, then go ahead if you feel the need. But this info on the family line has been out there longer then you have been alive. Sometimes it is better to leave well enough alone. We already have problem just cleaning up the tree once our GGGGGGGG-grandfather got to the states. We have distant cousins that don't want to clean up merges here. Just think how they will feel if you start to delete profile info...Remember you and Patrick are only two out of many hundreds that are linked to this profile. You two can't make decisions for everyone else without getting all to agree.

Thanks for the response, Terri.

Nobody is saying that the two of us are rushing in and doing whatever we want. I've tried time and time again to gain consensus, and I've never once attempted to remove any connections.

This is a public discussion. Also, Mareen is tagged in this discussion, so people that are very interested in his profile are likely to see this.

Frankly, I think we should delegate the decision to a Curator. They have better tools, and they have some gravitas among the community. Also, they're more likely to be unbiased as compared to those of us in this thread (Me, Patrick, Terri) who have strong feelings about our direct ancestry.

Your collaborator, Robert Grant Brünner, started this discussion.

-Thanks for the response, Terri. Nobody is saying that the two of us are rushing in and doing whatever we want. I've tried time and time again to gain consensus, and I've never once attempted to remove any connections. This is a public discussion. Also, Mareen is tagged in this discussion, so people that are very interested in his profile are likely to see this. Frankly, I think we should delegate the decision to a Curator. They have better tools, and that have some gravitas among the community. Also, they're more likely to be unbiased as compared to those of us in this thread (Me, Patrick, Terri) who have strong feelings about our direct ancestry.

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Robert...I don't disagree with you, I just don't want it coming back on us! We just need to be careful how this is handled on this site as there are so many that are connected to this tree.

http://www.geni.com/projects/Descendants+of+Mareen+Duvall+of+Middle...

I started a Geni Project for the family of Mareen Duvall. I have invited the participants of this thread as collaborators.

Great idea Robert. I would also suggest asking a curator to make Mareen Duvall "The Immigrant" a master profile. Perhaps Erica Howton would do the honors.

I have no interest in a curator taking over this profile. I do however want to work on this project. Robert, I have been working on noting but this for that last few months...There is no place that I can find that has a credible source as to who our 8/9th Great Grandfathers parents are. I have been pouring though old FRENCH documents and I have found many du Val family members. I am not sure where they fit in the family line, but NO trace of Mareen Du Val's parents.
I do not believe that those who are listed are his parents as if you look at the family naming patterns alone, the names don't add up. I am now working of contacting sources in the Laval area of France that I have made to see if they can trace information of him.
The reason I do not want a curator is that I will be locked out of working on his profile. If that happens I will disconnect my entire tree, which is massive. I don't want to do that, but I will if I have to. This is my family tree too, not just yours.

Private User a master profile does not need to be locked. Making a profile a master profile just indicates that it is the official version of the profile that everyone should focus on.

Terri

I think you're misunderstanding the curator program and scope.

There is NO INTENT to lock family from access to their profiles at all!

The idea is that one single well defined Master Profile will represent every historical figure. To that end, curators are currently:

- merging together duplicates through the *usual* collaborative merge process

- merging together duplicates from abandoned accounts that have been clogging up the database and *preventing* the usual collab / merge process from working correctly

For instance, I am currently merging together 25 copies of "Elder" William Brewster. Every manager on the Profile ***retains*** their edit rights.

"Locking" profiles has so far only been a temporary fix when a historical figure is particularly confused and there are a lot of incorrect, confusing merges that keep coming, mostly a result of lousy GEDCOM copies. Royalty is particularly a victim of this, not the kind of quality, ancestral, well documented and researched profile you're talking about with Mareen Du Val.

And for the record, I have not locked *any* profiles I curate. I see no need to, for one thing: and for another, they are not finalized Profiles as yet: that is, validated by the managers as "this is it, there is no more that we can add to the Profile."

The ultimate goal and flow envisioned is for the group of curators -- and there will be many more than the current team, we're just doing it in waves -- to "manage" additions to the data. In other words, "lock" is envisioned as: this Profile data will only be changed by validated and documented information submitted for review.

If descendants agree that there is no proof of Mareen Du Val's parentage, the way I would see the MP reflecting that is this:

- the Master Profile has all parents broken off
- If necessary, "placeholder" profiles should be created such as "Mareen Du Val's Unknown Mother" and Mareen Du Val's Unknown Father." This will prevent him from being continuously adopted (as mentioned, often by GEDCOM uploads).
- A "curator note" will be floated above the MP to warn about lack of known parentage; this is useful in the merge carousel in particular.
- Arguments for various parents are detailed and sourced within the "overview" tab and a pointer to this discussion, perhaps, if someone has different data
- The MP is not locked because the MP could be enriched

Hope this idea works for everyone. It's the same way I am handling similar issues with the "Mayflower" Passengers.

I've made Mareen Du Val into a Master Profile. He is now my 9th cousin (something) removed. A few months ago he was my 14th cousin I think.

The connecting ancestor is John FitzGeoffrey, Lord of Shere and Justiciar of Ireland

"This is my family tree too, not just yours." —Terri

Terri, my intentions are being misconstrued. If you actually read every single message I have ever written in regards to Mareen, you will see that I have never once made any claims to taking over, and doing whatever I want. I'm starting to become slightly offended as you consistently imply that I am strong-arming to get "My way."

You're wrong about this being "My tree" or "Your tree." This isn't any one single person's tree. It is the Geni community's tree."I'll take my ball and go home" attitudes get us nowhere.

I want to work for objective, factual data. I want changes to be made via consensus. That is the only goal I have ever had.

Terri, Kewl! I hope you find something about him in France. This is the only place where the answer on his parentage can possibly come from, and the prospect of somebody finally finding something real about them is exciting. I want to see the mess that has become his family to be straightened out. That's one of the reasons I started shouting from the rooftops that his parentage was not correct... to bring attention to the problem. I'm proud of our family, and want to see it grow the right way, not through the application of fake data that never should have been there in the first place. Based on naming conventions, and the fact that the exact birth order of his children has not been completely nailed down (to my knowledge), it seems to me that his father would likely be named John (or should I say Jean), although Mareen, Lewis (Louis) and Samuel would also be possibilities. I completely agree that this Thomas and Massiott stuff makes no sense.

Erica and Robert, good luck on getting this straightened out! I applaud your efforts too.

Can a Curator please add these profiles to the project?

Harry S. Truman, 33rd President of the USA
Barack H. Obama, 44th President of the USA
[Dick Cheney, 46th Vice President of the USA
Gabriel Duvall, Associate Justice of the US Supreme Court
Wallis, Duchess of Windsor
Betty Duvall (Confederate spy)
[Robert Selden Duvall
Warren Buffett

For whatever reason, I can't add most of his descendants to the project. Anyone that can do so, please do.