King David to Raban Gamliel to Rashi etc.

Shimon, thank you for joining the discussion and for reminding us it is Pesah Sheni today. It seems your personal family tree must have been swallowed in a merge into Geni's Big Tree and you are suddenly surprised to find branches that you did not expect all the way back to Rashi.

According to Geni indeed your wife descends from Rabbi Akiva Eiger's illustrious rabbinical family and all the way back to Rashi. Out of respect, Rabbi's who are Rashi's descendants list their lineages back to Rashi in their seforim, so valid sources back to Rashi do exist.

Geni in fact lists your wife herself as a 26th great granddaughter of Rashi. Wouldn't it be a shame to deprive your children of this possible fact unless you can prove otherwise? Though you are right that Yichus Atzma, the present, is where our major focus should be, but keeping in mind that we stand today on the shoulders of giants is important too.

Your wife, ....her father,
C. L.,.... his mother
F. L., ...her father
A. K, ....his father
Rabbi A. K, ....his mother
G. K,..... her mother
Sorel Sofer (Eiger) ....., her father
Rabbi Akiva Eiger (Eger) רבי עקיבא איגר , his father
Moshe GINS (GUENS/GUNS), his father
Shmuel Günsz (Marx - Shlesinger), his father
Israel Güns Margaliot Jaffe, his father
Marx Mordechai Jaffe Schlesinger, his father
Rav Moshe Margaliot Yaffe, his father
Yehuda Leib Yaffe, his father
Rabbi Mordechai JAFFE, his father
Moshe Jaffe, his father
Yehuda HaLevi Horowitz, his mother
Miryam Bella Horowitz הורביץ, her mother
Malkah Dina Iserlish איסרליש, her mother
Malka Drezl Schrenzel [ReMa Gd.mother] , her father
Yehiel יחיאל Luria לוריא III , his father
Rabbi Aharon רבי אהרון Luria לוריא , his father
Netanel Luria, his father
HaRav Yechiel Luria II, his mother
Vergentlin Hanna Luria , her father
Yosef Tzarfati , his father
Rabbi Yaakov ben Meir Klonimus, Rabenu TAM [Gd.son of RASHI], his mother
Yocheved Klonymos [of Ramerupt] her father
Rabbi Shlomo Yitzchaki - RASHI רש"י

Shimon,

History is documented, especially through genealogy beginning with Geneisis. Are you trying to imply that man(woman) has not the intelligence to document history/genealogy as it has been done? The purpose was a knowledge of the importance to document to preserve for the future. From the beginning the documentation was not only for historical accounting, but as man acquired material possessions, ie., cows, sheep, land, homes, and had children, wives, etc., and the status of wealth, the importance of documentation was also for legalities.

History has been documented throughout mankind.

And yes, can be traced. You can see these records in many archives, Parliment, Cambridge, in the Peerage (Burkes), Israel, etc., many world reknown historians and genealogist have been documenting this for thousands of years.

My GEDCOM alone has over 10,000 legal documents and sourcing.

Perhaps an open mind, genealogy is to build, not to destroy. As ridiculous as you may find, you cannot change truths.

Predudice against the truth is an ignorant stance.

I would like to apologize to everyone if my post insulted you. I actually do very much enjoy studying (maybe "study" is too strong a word...) roots, and am really happy to learn that I was incorrect when I assumed that roots to Rashi could not really be traced in our time. Thank you all (especially Malka!) for setting me right.

I only want to know why such a learned man named two of his children the same name (Miriam)? Had one died by the time the other was born?

Re RASHI - רש״י daughter, Miriam.
Glad you pointed out the error regarding the two Miriams.
The first Miriam, Miriam Bat RASHI is correct, the second one Miriam Bat RASHI is attached to the line and requires merging.

Well then, that makes sense, doesnt it? Although, when I cant remember which child's name to call, it would be easier if they all had the same name!

Elayne, this is pretty much the standard situation on Geni. When merging duplicate trees you will very often see people who are their own siblings, cousins (if the parent isn't merged) or married to identical spouses. As each merge progresses, these duplicates will be combined, and "disappear" - until the next merge comes along... :-)

Well, it seems King david is my 60th Great grandfather....I am honored!

I found out that Rashi is my great uncle's 23rd great grandfather. What an honor!

Thanks for adding the list of ancestors from Rashi to David, although it's hard to know for sure if it's accurate. Would it be possible to merge the Dovid Hamelech profile [6000000008223556013] with other profiles of King David such as [6000000000107950864]?

Shalom Jonathan,
thank you for pointing these out to me. I sent a message to the manager of King David of Israel (you need double brackets [[ ]]), asking him to collaborate with me, so that I can merge his copy into the main one which can be found here: King David of Israel. The manager of the other tree, refuses to have her tree merged into the common one.

At ANY given moment, there are probably around 200! profiles for King David on Geni. It is a constant job trying to merge them all together. I've been doing just that for over two years now...

This line is especially important to me:
Danny Kuperberg --> the Maharal --> Rashi --> Rabbi Hillel --> King David line.

I appear to have a direct link through all these figures, but quite how common that is amongst Jews living today is the issue for me.

Maybe Geni could publish some kind of analytics to show the proportion of other Geni Jews who also share a similar lineage.

Now THAT would be useful and put some of this into its proper context.

Regards to all,

Daniel Joseph Kuperberg,
London, UK

Hi Danny,
Geni used to inform members, at random, that they were linked to famous people. It told me that Karl Marx is my great uncle's first cousin once removed's husband's fourth great grandfather's wife's grandson. I wasn't pleased, so I looked up other famous Jews, and I found links to some prominent rabbis and founders of Israel.

HI,

Does anyone have any sources or way I can verify the above line from David Hamelech to Rashi. I have been looking for this line for a long time and just found this discussion. Is it documented somewhere? How do we know its legitimate?

YR

Hi Yonah,

I found this article on the JewishGen website:
http://www.jewishgen.org/rabbinic/journal/descent.htm

I know I'm very late to the game, and I've tried to follow along, but I have a question. So, I started at rashi's profile and started following fathers up and suddenly, at Yehoshua ben Zimri, it says "22 generations to Yochanan HaSandler" and leaves it at that. Um, are those 22 generations recorded anywhere? Where's this coming from and how can I find them? I can trace to Rashi personally and I can get to King David via a different line that I was informed of, using Rashi's mother's line, but I would be very interested to fill out his father's paternal line to King David. Is this even possible?
Thanks!

David Gelerinter, perhaps Shmuel-Aharon Kam (Kahn / שמואל-אהרן קם (קאן can shed some light on the complexity regarding those missing generations.

In addition, it seems that the lineage from R' Yochanan to Dovid isn't as clear either. Does there exist an actual paternal line from either Rashi or R' Yochanan to King David?

David. in both cases the answer is NO. These generations are NOT recorded.

Thank you. Now, I recently was given a line from Rashi to David, but not paternal. Are you saying that line is likely false or incomplete or that only the straight shot paternal line doesn't exist?

Actually, scratch that. I just reviewed it again and it also goes through the missing 22 generations right after R' Yochanan HaSandler.

However, I do have this question. I see the Dr. Neil Rosenstein has a published book regarding the Lurie family. I don't have the book, but its description says it traces back to David. Did he actually trace it or does he also have that gap?

EVERYBODY has that gap.
I have not yet heard of even ONE reliable source for a line of 100-110 generations going that far back. Not one.

King David my 101 GG.... Can anyone help me understand the validity of my path.... Where along the line for me does it become undocumented/and do all religions follow the same understanding of Lineage? Is this unusual or do many people find paths here?

There are unfortunately still undocumented Links in Geni. You should identify where your tree “breaks” (can’t be proven) and post that link requesting a disconnect. See the project:

https://www.geni.com/projects/Testing-for-Fake-Medieval-and-Ancient...

The more people who do this and post those Geni profiles, the more accurate we can get the Geni tree.

I'm a descendant of Rashi through the Joffe rabbinical dynasty connecting to the Kuklya-Rubin line, all of which is well-documented through published source so not dependent on family claims. I say that just to establish my bona fides. Some lines back to Rashi are easily verified I'd be happy to provide the solid lineage from Rashi to Rabbi Mordecai Joffe, the Levush, 15 generations.

However, it totally befuddles me that anyone would try to claim "Davidic" lineage. I'm a historian. The whole idea of a "Davidic line" is mythological and many books have been written about this particular mythology. Moreover, it is CHRISTIAN mythology, reflecting two of the New Testament gospels that detail the alleged lineage from the mythical King David to the mythical Jesus. The purpose the New Testament authors had in mind was to fool Jews into thinking that such a fictional genealogy was some sign of messianic qualification. Numerous Jewish scholars have shown: 1: There is no known genealogy from any King David if such a person existed; 2. Jews before the 1st century did not have a concept of a "Davidic line" linked to messianism; 3. After the spread of Christianity, namely starting in the Middle Ages with the Crusades, many Jews borrowed the mythology of a "Davidic Line" from Christians and from the New Testament gospels.

Two of the Joffe rabbis in the Rashi line died as martyrs in France, probably for challenging the "Davidic Line" nonsense of Christians.

It therefore is exceptionally bizarre for any Jewish family to be reviving this mythology in the context of what is supposed to be sober genealogy. As soon as someone even talks about Davidic Line, it rightly casts all of the genealogy claimed by that person into profound question. It's like claiming that your family tree starts with Zeus. It is extremely relevant that David is part of the mythological part of the bible, and there is zero archaeological evidence that a King David ever existed. (There is a single stela from Syria that might refer to a "House of David" under a generous interpretation, but that could mean any number of things and does not imply a king by that name; "David" is a Semitic word with its own meaning.)

To ratify all this, the journal Avotaynu did a thorough review of the David-Rashi claims and found not only there were a great multiplicity of proposed lineages that are mutually contradictory, but that all of them appear to be fictional.

As if additional evidence is needed, the original mythology concerning a "Davidic Line" required male lineage only, in connection with the Jewish idea that Cohane status passes through the male line. However, of the various claimed Davidic Jews lineages involved, between two and five different Y-chromosome haplogroups are involved. It is impossible that all Cohane lines started with David or any other single man. The Rashi line has been determined to be J1; however, Rashi's genetic male ancestors have been traced to Spain, which contradicts all of the claimed lines of descent linking Rashi to Gamaliel and Hillel.

In sum, to claim genealogy beyond Rashi's father is silliness. His father was reputed to be an excellent vintner. Be content with that. In vino veritas.

I'll add two points: 1. Because traditional Cohanes believed that only the male line was important for Cohane status, many old rabbinical lineages only record the males. That means that if an actual lineage involved some links through women, those linkages were almost certainly not recorded and therefore there is no hope of documenting them.

2. It is frequently said that Rashi "claimed descent from Gamaliel," but sometimes it is phrased as "it is claimed that Rashi descended from Gamaliel." This appears to be a falsification. It is highly doubtful that Rashi ever made such a claim. If he made the claim he would have produced the lineage, and that record would be extremely well-known so not subject to speculation and without need for reconstruction. Rashi almost certainly knew that his near-ancestors had come from Spain. Therefore if the claims about his ancestry were based on his own testimony, those claims would not show his near-ancestors coming through Italy and/or Babylonia, which appear to be guesses with lack of real knowledge about his ancestry.

I'm sorry but one cannot "work"" on any genealogy that connects King David to Rashi or any other historical person. The consensus of scholars is that King David is either completely mythical (i.e. there was no King David), or so mytholicized as to eliminate any historical hooks into the person. For example, the "united kingdom" over which he alleged to have ruled is now understood to not have existed. At the time ascribed to David, there were rival kingdoms -- Israel and Judah -- and they were hostile to each other.

Another problem is that Israelites and Judahites did not begin to convert to monotheism until about three centuries after the alleged rule of David. That means that if David was a real king, he was a Canaanite/Phoenician king and he worshipped Canaanite gods. Any information contained in the Hebrew Bible about David, and especially about his progeny, must be considered fictional.

In the history of Judaism, the "Davidic Line" scam has been the source of fraud and corruption for more than 2500 years. It is not genealogy; it is a way to fleece people out of money for the sake of false status and power. Geni is now home to major source of such fraud, which most of you are, I'm sure, aware of. At least one set of profiles of King David, Gamaliel, Hillel, and their alleged interconnections -- created by Ian Levine -- was recently removed; removed because it was fraudulent.

Real genealogy begins with the historical record and David is not included in any historical record. The bible is not history. Do not be a part of this.

Hi! This looks like an old thread/post, but I am looking at my yichus that was given to me by my grandfather. It is from his Great-uncle dated 1932. Many of the people it mentions (including Rashi, Hasandler, Rabban Gamliel, King David) are mentioned here, though some spellings are different. Not sure if it would be of value, but if so, I could scan and upload.