Charibert I, King of the Franks at Paris - Charibert l - origins?

Reference: this profile on Geni:

Charibert of Neustria

In the "about"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charibert_of_Hesbaye

http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00076149&tree=LEO

Update: MedLands has removed Chrodbert, Haltbert, and Erlebert as son of Charibert, pending further research.

Medlands

According to Europäische Stammtafeln[458], Chrodbert [I] and his brothers [Haltbert and Erlebert] were sons of "Charibert nobilis in Neustria †635". No reference has been found to this person in any of the primary sources so far consulted and it has been decided to omit him until a positive identification can be made.

• Medlands

  ---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charibert_I

Charibert married Ingoberga and they had five children:

1. Blithide of Cologne (538–603), possibly married to Ansbertus, Gallo-Roman senator
2. Charibert of Hesbaye (d. 636)
3. Clithorice (541–569)
4. Bertha, who married Æthelberht of Kent
5. Chlothar (542)

However:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charibert_of_Hesbaye

Charibert de Haspengau (555–636) was a Frankish nobleman, possibly a comes. The identity of his parents is uncertain, though he is believed by some to be the son of King Charibert I of Paris.[1] Charibert is described as Charibert nobilis in Neustria. No other information is available other than descriptions of his grandchildren (e.g., Lambertus, Bishop of Lyon), who are described as having "high rank and worthy of significant positions" within the palace.

Charibert married Wulfgurd of Hesbaye of unknown parentage. They had four children: ...

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/MEROVINGIANS.htm

3. CHARIBERT ([520]-Paris end 567, bur [Paris, Saint-Germain des Prés]). Gregory of Tours names (in order) Gunthar, Childerich, Charibert, Guntram, Sigibert and a daughter Clothsind as the children of King Clotaire and his wife Ingonde[171]. ...

King Charibert & his first wife had one child:

a) BERTA ([before 560]-[601/before 616], bur Canterbury, Church of St Peter and St Paul). Gregory of Tours records that the daughter of King Charibert and Ingoberg "eventually married a man from Kent and went to live there"[181].

King Charibert & his [second] [wife] had one child:

b) BERTHEFLEDIS (after 561-after 589).

King Charibert & his third wife had one child:

c) son (b and d after 561). Gregory of Tours refers to the unnamed son of King Charibert and Theudechild who was buried immediately after his birth[188].

King Charibert & his --- wife had [one child]:

d) [CHROTIELDIS [Clotilde] ([after 561]-after 590). Gregory of Tours records that Clotilde, who "used to pretend that she was Charibert's daughter" (which suggests doubt about the correctness of her assertion), led a revolt in the convent of Sainte-Croix in Poitiers, together with Basina daughter of King Chilperich, against abbess Leubovera[189]. She was excommunicated for involvement in political intrigue, but accepted back at her convent. If Chrotieldis was the daughter of King Charibert, no indication has been found concerning the identity of her mother.]

Sharon Elizabeth Richards - is there "another" Charibert? Because I read this as a straight up disconnect from parents.

All -

Any objections? This has been been pending since 2018.

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANKSMaiordomi.htm#_Toc284006017

Three brothers, parents not identified:

1. CHRODBERT [Robert] [I] . The Vita Lantberti names "Hrotbertus ac Haltbertus" as "avunculi" of "Lambertus vir…nobilissimi generis prosapia ortus", specifying that "Hrotbertus" was "summus palatii referendarius"[513]. Referendarius of King Dagobert I 8 Apr 630. Anulus of King Clotaire III. According to Europäische Stammtafeln[514], Chrodbert [I] and his brothers were sons of "Charibert nobilis in Neustria †635". No reference has been found to this person in any of the primary sources so far consulted and it has been decided to omit him until a positive identification can be made. m ---. The name of Chrodbert’s wife is not known. Chrodbert [I] & his wife had one child:

a) ANGADRISMA . The Vita Ansberti names "Hrotbertus…ex stirpe proditus et gerulus…anuli regis Chlotharii" as father of "religiosissimam ac nobilissimam Angadrismam", clarifying in a later passage that "Hrotbertus et frater eius Haltbertus" were "avunculi sancti patris Lantberti"[515].

2. HALTBERT . The Vita Lantberti names "Hrotbertus ac Haltbertus" as "avunculi" of "Lambertus vir…nobilissimi generis prosapia ortus"[516].

3. ERLEBERT . The Vita Lantberti names "Erlebertus editus territorio Tarvennico" as father of "Lambertus vir…nobilissimi generis prosapia ortus"[517]. m ---. The name of Erlebert’s wife is not known. Erlebert & his wife had one child:

a) LAMBERT . The Vita Lantberti names "Erlebertus editus territorio Tarvennico" as father of "Lambertus vir…nobilissimi generis prosapia ortus"[518]. Abbot of Fontanelle. Bishop of Lyon.

(Are these profiles on Geni?)

Lambert I, count of Burgundy

Curator Note (5/29/2018):

Some sources have Lambert I as the brother of Chrodobertus I, son of Charibert.
Europäische Stammtafeln says he was son of Robert I.

Angadrisma shown as daughter of "Robert l" (display name) Robert I

This is the same profile as Charibert of Neustria but with the more current theory of his origins.

• the "of Neustria" profile shows too many children / children in the wrong place, perhaps
• the "Robert l" profile shows a speculative? parent of the 3 brothers, Chrotbert de Therouanne

Cross reference discussion:

https://www.geni.com/discussions/273654?msg=1672328
Charibert of Neustria - Charibert of Neustriaborn between 555 and 567 died after 636

Colin Henshaw wrote:

Wikipedia states that: "The identity of his parents is uncertain, though he is believed by some to be the son of King Charibert I of Paris."

Is there any more provenance that King Charibert I of Paris is the father of Charibert of Neustria. The given names are the same, si it's a possibility, however, are we justified in including him in the lineage of such flimsy evidence?

Private User wrote:

MedLands has CHARIBERT King of the Franks, but no son of the same name. Four wives, three daughters (Berta, Berthefledis, and Clotilde) and one son who died in infancy, name, if any , not recorded.

As to Charibert of Neustria, there is only this: "According to Europäische Stammtafeln[514], Chrodbert [I] and his brothers were sons of "Charibert nobilis in Neustria †635". No reference has been found to this person in any of the primary sources so far consulted and it has been decided to omit him until a positive identification can be made." https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANKSMaiordomi.htm

NOTE: Europäische Stammtafeln is an extensive compilation of European family trees, and as such as (un)reliable as any other family trees.

When in doubt, always check NedLands https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CONTENTS.htm

Colin Henshaw
12/24/2023 at 2:38 PM

Seems there is no conclusive evidence that @Charibert of Neustria is the son of @Charibert, King of the Franks. I have seen this lineage on geni.com by various circuitous routes. Is it justified to keep the suggestion that @Charibert of Neustria is the son of @Charibert, King of the Franks, or should it be deleted? Lineages should be based on incontrovertible evidence.