Sancho Nuñes de Celanova, Señor de Barbosa - abandoned node blocked

Started by Livio Scremin on Thursday, April 20, 2023
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Hi, whoever (C) receives this notification is kindly requested to come unlock and help supervise.
The node is abandoned blocked and subject of incorrects abandoned for years.
I list some quickly, some easy others to control:

D. Fruilhe Sanches de Barbosa missing daughter of parents MP locked Sancho Nuñes de Celanova, señor de Barbosa & Sancha Henriques, infanta de Portugal

his other 2 wives they don't turn out & are to be checked, but it's all blocked, we can't even put a sticker or orientation note..
(Teresa Mendes de Ribadouro, (NFP) & Teresa Afonso de Portugal)

children too:
-D. Sancho Nunes de Barbosa, 2º conde de Barbosa not known son of Sancho Nuñes de Celanova, señor de Barbosa source PLZ (but seeing the ADMN I already guess what the problem could be --> import of the internet's worst exotic homemade DIYs trees :)
-Fruilhe Sanches, de Celanova not known son of Sancho Nuñes de Celanova, señor de Barbosa source PLZ (or was originally the profile of D. Fruilhe Sanches de Barbosa ? however now the husband does not match)

-----------
(C) Erica Howton PLZ from the previous discussion or private message remains to remove the wrong parents in time jump of Goto Muñoz (...-964)
[in fact here erroneously present as a sister of the node under discussion (1070-1130)]

{Please be patient if I have some writing errors, but I'm very far from home.. yet apparently you all really need a spaghetti eater to help you out :}

Hi Private User

The curator note has:

Bloqueado para evitar fusões indevidas em área que apresenta controvérsias.
ATENTION: Blocked to avoid undue mergers in an area of controversy.
PLEASE CURATORS DON´T CHANGE THE RELATIONSHIPS!

So, I await your kind assistance.

muito obrigado

D. Fruilhe Sanches de Barbosa
DUP of
Fruilhe Sanches, de Celanova disconnected 10 days ago

quoted a professional genealogy guru with his own website
(one of those descended from everyone, everything everywhere?:)

but be careful because the 3 wives are from 2 different husbands:
*https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sancho_Nunes_de_Barbosa
*https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sancho_Nunes_de_Celanova
sources, books, studies and biographies cited ^^'

La correzione per Goto Munoz è completa. Grazie molto.

The disconnect from 10 days ago was from cleaning up a duplicate tree for isolation and deletion. I had connected per the duplicate tree but then undid it when I saw the curator's note, hence the disconnect.

Hi Erica Howton

The curator note was placed by Lucia Pilla, on the profiles of Fruilhe Sanches de Celanova (I deleted the note) and Teresa Mendes de Ribadouro -which is still curated by Lucia Pilla.

What else can I do to help?

Unlocked and removed curator note (also by Lucia Pilla) from the profile of Sancho Nuñes de Celanova, Señor de Barbosa

Se bem entendi, I era o avô e II o neto. Somente isso ?

also the block on Sancha Henriques, infanta de Portugal prevents maneuvers..
(C) Vicar [no longer active for years]

in the meantime, I'll let you know and I leave notes inside profiles that Fruilhe Sanches, de Celanova is not known wife of D. Nuno Perez Mendes de Bragança, Senhor da Honra de Caria
and neither does he of her, his wife from a first very vague search already appears Dórdia Mendes de Ribadouro, Senhora da honra de Caria ..

..only then is their common daughter Urraca Nunes de Bragança under the wrong mother?

Livio Scremin

I also unlocked

Sancha Henriques, infanta de Portugal

Thank you so much, Private User I feel more comfortable with you involved on these people important to Portugal and Brasília.

Thanks, we're almost there
for the moment I continue with a few pleasantries, but quick notes and "stickers"..
we're almost there :)

Pero 'o Braganção' Fernandes, senhor de Bragança
DUP tree of his BRO Pero 'o Braganção' Fernandes, senhor de Bragança MP locked

Erica Howton

I confess that I never researched much the ancient genealogies of Portugal, because Lucia Pilla was more dedicated.
As I took over the curation of some profiles added by her,
I became involved with these lineages, but as she said, it was never the focus of my research.

Glad you're working on it!

I should save some time by marking the line coming down from the new 1100 duplication..

2023 Garcia Gonçalves de Antas
1400 connection point of
2013 Gonçalo Rodrigues de Antas

source PLZ

Livio Scremin

According with I could check Nuno Pires de Bragança is son of Pedro Fernandes de Bragança (1130 -?) and Fruilhe Sanches de Celanova (1140 -?). Married to Maria Fogaça (1180 -?).

Here goes:

"Foi filho de Pedro Fernandes de Bragança (1130 -?) e de Fruilhe Sanches de Celanova (1140 -?). Casou com Maria Fogaça (1180 -?) de quem teve:

Rui Nunes de Bragança.
Froile Nunes casada com Martim Pires de Chacim (1185 – 1258).

Bibliografia
José Augusto de Sotto Mayor Pizarro, Linhagens Medievais Portuguesas - 3 vols, Universidade Moderna, 1ª Edição, Porto, 1999, vol. 1 pág. 236.

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuno_Pires_de_Bragan%C3%A7a

pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuno_Pires_de_Bragança

Pedro-Fernandes-de-Bragança-DUP-TREE/6000000178291417861?

Pero 'o Braganção' Fernandes, senhor de Bragança

José Augusto de Sotto Mayor Pizarro is a respectful genealogist and historian.

Unfortunately, I do not have this cited book.

I kindly suggest to may contact these curators to help to organize the trees:

George J. Homs

Diego de Moraes Moreira (C)

Nivea Nunes Dias

Jarrett Ross (112-1701-241-22)

If the curator Ana Toledo may be very busy, I suppose these other curators may help you.

At least two of them are native speakers of Portuguese and Spanish.

Hopefully, I could help with the information above.

It's a huge work to organize the Portuguese and Medieval Medieval Trees linking everybody to the correct Ancestors.

And I'm sure you try your best to the accuracy that can be reached.

Some more information to help:

"Pedro Fernandes de Bragança

Pedro Fernandes de Bragança (antes de 1130 - depois de 1195)[1], foi senhor de Bragança, um rico-homem e cavaleiro medieval do reino de Portugal e ainda mordomo-mor de D. Afonso Henriques entre os anos de 1169 e 1175, [1] e depois na corte dos primeiros anos de D. Sancho I até 1194.

(...) Pedro era filho primogénito de Fernão Mendes II de Bragança e da sua primeira esposa, Teresa Soares da Maia, pertencendo desta forma a uma das mais notáveis linhagens do Reino de Portugal, os Bragançãos. Esta família reveste-se de especial importância, pois para além do seu domínio incontestável na atual região de Trás-os-Montes, que integrava os seus domínios fronteiriços, que podiam facilmente mudar a fação do reino que apoiava (entre Portugal e Leão), destacava-se a sua reputação de valentes guerreiros.  A acrescentar a estas qualidades, e a acreditar nos Livros de Linhagens, o seu trisavô, Fernão Mendes I, teria casado com uma infanta filha de Afonso VI de Leão, dando-lhe desta forma um poder equiparável ao do seu suposto cunhado Henrique de Borgonha.

(...) O seu casamento com Fruilhe Sanches de Celanova era já tradicional na linhagem no que diz respeito ao seu caráter régio, uma vez que a mulher era, pelo lado materno, sobrinha de Afonso I de Portugal. Ao mesmo tempo, por esta mesma ligação, era sua "co-irmã", já que Sancha Henriques, a referida irmã daquele monarca, era também sua madrasta. Aparte a ligação muito próxima entre os nubentes, Pedro tentou aproximar-se também de magnates influentes na corte, e o pai de Fruilhe, Sancho Nunes de Celanova, fora um deles, dado que combatera na Batalha de São Mamede ao lado do então infante Afonso contra a fação da mãe deste, Teresa de Leão.Contudo, foi a Mordomia-mor, ao lado do cunhado, Vasco Sanches de Celanova, que fez com que Pedro de facto sobressaísse na corte. Os dois cunhados parecem desempenhar o cargo simultaneamente até 1172, data a partir da qual Pedro começa a confirmar-se como único mordomo, e assim se manteria até 1175, quando foi substituídoApesar de ter sido destituído, Pedro continua a estar documentado, pelo menos em Portugal, até 1190.

Matrimónio e descendência
Pedro desposou, em data incerta, Fruilhe Sanches de Celanova,[7] filha de Sancho Nunes de Celanova e de D. Sancha Henriques, infanta de Portugal, de quem teve:
Garcia Pires de Bragança "Ledrão",[7] provavelmente o filho mais velho,[1] casou com Gontinha Soares de Tougues;
Fernão Pires de Bragança,[1] casou com uma asturiana e foi pai de Fernão Fernandes de Bragança; [7]
Vasco Pires de Bragança,[1] casou com Sancha Pires de Baião; [7]
Nuno Pires de Bragança, teve filhos com Maria Fogaça; [7]
Sancha Pires de Bragança, casou com Ermígio Mendes de Ribadouro; [7]Teresa Pires I de Bragança, casou com Afonso Hermiges de Baião[7]

Gayo, Manuel José da Costa Felgueiras, Nobiliário das Famílias de Portugal, Carvalhos de Basto, 2ª Edição, Braga, 1989. vol. I-pg. 601 (Azevedos) e vol. II-pg. 236 (Barbosas).

Sottomayor-Pizarro, José Augusto (1997). Linhagens Medievais Portuguesas: Genealogias e Estratégias (1279-1325). I. Porto: Tese de Doutoramento, Edicão do Autor

Sottomayor-Pizarro, José Augusto de (2007). «O Regime Senhorial na Fronteira do Nordeste Português. Alto Douro e Riba Côa». Madrid: Instituto de Historia "Jerónimo Zurita." Centro de Estudios Históricos. Hispania. Revista Española de Historia. LXVII (227): 849-880.

Ventura, Leontina (1992). A nobreza de corte de Afonso III. II. Coimbra: Universidade de Coimbra

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Fernandes_de_Bragan%C3%A7a

pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Fernandes_de_Bragança

Once more, hopefully, this information may help.

Livio Scremin

According to my research after reading your post, Pedro Fernandes de Bragança e Pero Fernandes de Ledra Senhor de Bragança is the same person.

Wikipedia states that Pedro Fernandes de Bragança married to Fruilhe Sanches de Celanova, niece of  Afonso I de Portugal (first king of Portugal).

And Fruilhe Sanchez de Barbosa and Fruilhe Sanches de Celanova would be the same person too.

Fruilhe Sanches, de Celanova

people/D-Fruilhe-de-Barbosa/6000000067127075871?

Fruilhe Sanches, de Celanova

people/Fruilhe-Sanches-de-Celanova/6000000000043756717?

I was also checking that Pero is the archaic form or variant of the name Pedro:

'Pero é variante arcaica de Pedro e ocorria sobretudo como forma proclítica (cf. Machado, op. cit.), p.ex., antes de um patronímico: «Pero Fernandes» (em vez de «Pedro Fernandes»).'

in Ciberdúvidas da Língua Portuguesa, https://ciberduvidas.iscte-iul.pt/consultorio/perguntas/o-plural-de...# [consultado em 21-04-2023]

The two profiles are here and both states this:

"Mordomo-mor de D. Afonso Henriques (de 1169 a 1175)"

"Mordomo-mor" corresponds to Lord Chamberlain in English.

Pero 'o Braganção' Fernandes, senhor de Bragança

people/Pedro-Fernandes-de-Bragança-DUP-TREE/6000000178291417861

Pero 'o Braganção' Fernandes, senhor de Bragança

people/Don-D-Pero-Fernandes-de-Ledra-senhor-de-Bragança/6000000000043496800?

Wikipedia:

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Fernandes_de_Bragan%C3%A7a

pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Fernandes_de_Bragança

Wikipedia states that Pedro Fernandes de Bragança was "Mordomo-mor de D. Afonso Henriques (de 1169 a 1175)".

And Nuno Pires de Bragança is his son. 
pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuno_Pires_de_Bragança

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuno_Pires_de_Bragan%C3%A7a

It sounds like the offspring were not correctly informed. 
Missing children.

The Portuguese language is very complex and during Medieval Times was common to have many variations of first names and ways to give a family name to the nobility.

So, it's really tricky and takes a lot of time to organize everything. 

I suppose may be strongly important to read books like these:
1-books of  José Mattoso (José João da Conceição Gonçalves Mattoso)
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Mattoso

pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/José_Mattoso

2- Gayo, Manuel José da Costa Felgueiras, Nobiliário de Famílias de Portugal.

3- Sotto Mayor Pizarro, José Augusto (1997). Linhagens Medievais Portuguesas: Genealogias e Estratégias (1279-1325).

4- Leme. Luís Gonzaga da Silva. Genealogia Paulistana. 1903-1905

http://www.arvore.net.br/Paulistana/

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogia_Paulistana

Well, that's my contribution.
May be helpful.

Special TNX Private User !
above all for inviting native-speaking curators (I see that 2 of them are still very active even these days:) [G.J. Homs no more sorry]

Yes, I have seen that some PT wiki pages are well documented and frequently updated.

Also I have not been able to list them in the description of the profiles, because many have the "fast total block" which even prevents you from writing in them.

I'm thinking sure there have been some bad merges over the years, but I also think the wiki page updates seem to have fixed some misunderstandings:

as an example above:
---> Sancho Nuñes de Celanova, señor de Barbosa --> be careful because the 3 wives are from 2 different husbands:
*https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sancho_Nunes_de_Barbosa
*https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sancho_Nunes_de_Celanova
sources, books, studies and biographies cited ^^'

So with everyone's collaboration and agreement, I'd say start removing the emergency "fast total blocks", and start leaving the available wikis inside the profiles (or quote the few lines that mention the profile)

then by removing the duplications following the visual cues you will see things magically settle down :)

Around the medieval world, with @Erica we fixed worse :D

You are welcome Livio Scremin ! :-)

I know it's very difficult to organize all the profiles and you and Erica try your best to do it.

Sometimes you are too fast and furious (alpha man), Livio! I am 100% sure you are a descendant of some Roman Emperors! :D

Portuguese and Spanish people (and Brazilians) until the last century used to repeat the names or jump generations with last names. Many times causes big confusion.

For example, I'm working on the genealogy of some close Ancestors and the same name and last name are repeated at three times at least!

Sancho Nuñes de Celanova will require more research. I will see what I will find.

But not today.

Time to rest and enjoy the real world and let the Ancestors in peace. <3

Thank you too for all your efforts.

Because I know you do your best here at Geni. <3

PLZ remove block to Teresa Mendes de Ribadouro, (NFP)

{ acronym (NFP) stands for? }

small easy fix detail:
remove ugly duplication "Dna." on both title and name on portughese fiels of Teresa Peres de Bragança
Name locked by (C) Vicar [no more active]

https://www.geni.com/discussions/264633?msg=1629603 -

I’m not going to try any fixes, much appreciating the information.

(I need to check my path to Teresa Peres de Bragança - there’s something bothering me on the English side). It’s a John Smith! Still the most common name in the world?

Erica Howton it could be that:
Teresa Peres de Bragança is wiki wife of Afonso Hermiges de Baião
& not known wife of Alfonso de León, señor de Molina y Mesa [vip MP locked]

the ViP [ https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfonso_de_Molina ] have many relationships, including one with a Teresa Peres (but de Lara)
and as of now around I have seen continuously here 1+1 = 11 :D
it's just not possible to perimeter this mess >.< wherever you go the work expands XD

Indeed, it’s a lifetime.

Three Teresa’s to sort, that’s it!!

Livio Scremin

Teresa Mendes de Ribadouro looks ok about her parents. But shows variation of last name at Wikipedia.

Teresa Mendes de Ribadouro, (NFP)

people/Teresa-Mendes-de-Ribadouro-NFP/6000000007152206231

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mem_Moniz_de_Ribadouro

pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mem_Moniz_de_Ribadouro

Her father, Mem Moniz de Ribadouro displays wrong last name at Geni:

Mem Moniz de Ribadouro

people/D-Mem-Moniz-de-Riba-Mouro/6000000001412921041?

The last name is de Ribadouro, not "Riba Mouro".

There is also Teresa Soares de Ribadouro.

She is another person with different parents.

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa_Soares_de_Ribadouro

pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa_Soares_de_Ribadouro

She is here and it's correct according to Wikipedia. Same correct parents.

Teresa Soares de Ribadouro

people/Teresa-Soares-De-Riba-Douro/6000000012124077629

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