Yves I, seigneur de Beaumont - Notes don’t match profile

There’s a pedigree note in the profile:

Descent:

1 Fouchard de Ham b: 945 d: BEF 981
+ Iva b: 940
+ Geila de Vermandois b: 950
2 Ivo I de Ham b: 945
+ Gisela b:
3 Yves de Beaumont l (Yves Bellomontensis) b: 975 d: 1035
+ Gisele Chevreuse b: 978 d: 1039
4 Yves de Beaumont ll (Ivo Bellemontensis) b: ABT 1005 d: 22 MAY 1059

Geila ‘the venerable’, de Vermondois Shows as daughter of Adalbert I the Pious, count of Vermandois & Gerberga of Lorraine married Fouchard, châtelain de Ham & also Yves I, seigneur de Beaumont

Geila or Gisele was not the daughter of Adalbert I the Pious, count of Vermandois & Gerberga of Lorraine

Their children were Heribert, Otto, Liudolf, Eleanore

https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/karens-family-tree/I191084.php Gives Geila parents she did not have.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Ham-280

Ivo of Ham

• Son of Fouchard Ham
• Married Gisela
• Father of Yves (Ham) Beaumont

The following line of descent is probably from the same source, which at present has not been found. An estimated birth year has been added based on the 30 year principle. Actual dates may be different when found.

• Fouchard of Ham, born 920
• Yves of Ham born 945
• Yves Beaumont born 975
• Unknown Beaumont daughter, born 1000, married Dreux De Mello,
• Gilbert de Mello, born 1020.

This looks like the “traditional” pedigree, with various elements that have been disproved or questioned.

But it gives us an orientation.

——

http://mauriceboddy.org.uk/Beaumont-Sur-Oise.htm

BEAUMONT-SUR-OISE

Various different English sites have various versions
so the following version is only approximately correct.

[BEAS281] Lambert (born c.921), Seigneur de Ham. He died c.967.

[BEAS291] Yves II de Beaumont (born c.940-45), Chatelain de Beaumont-sur-Oise, Seigneur de Ham, nicknamed Seigneur Fouchard de Ham, married [VERM312] Geila/Gisla the venerable de Vermandois (born 954, daughter of Count Albert I, see VERMANDOIS COUNTY). Geila died c.975, and Ives died c.978-81.

[BEAS301] Yves III le jeune de Beaumont (born c.970) married (c.1004) Gisele de Chevreuse (born 978, daughter of Guy I de Chevreuse).

[BEAS311] Yves IV (born c.995), Seigneur de Conflans, 1st Count of Beaumont-sur-Oise, married Emma/Emme. He died 22nd May 1059.

[BEAS321] Yves V (born c.1015), 2nd Count of Beaumont-sur-Oise, married 1. Judith; then 2. Adelaide de Gourney (daughter of Hugh III le vieux de Gourney, by Basilie, see GOURNEY). He died after 1083. Adelaide died 8th April 1099.

[BEAS332] Adelize (born c.1033, daughter of Yves V & Judith) married [GRAN331] Hugh I (see GRANTMESNIL).

[BEAS333] Beatrix de Beaumont-sur-Oise (born c.1040), Countess of Oise & Crevecoeur) married [FLEM241] Michael le Fleming (born c.1040), Seigneur d'Oisy (see FLEMING).

[BEAS291] Yves II de Beaumont (born c.940-45), Chatelain de Beaumont-sur-Oise, Seigneur de Ham, nicknamed Seigneur Fouchard de Ham, married [VERM312] Geila/Gisla the venerable de Vermandois (born 954, daughter of Count Albert I, see VERMANDOIS COUNTY). Geila died c.975, and Ives died c.978-81.

Is saying Fouchard = Yves (Ivo) of Ham

Not sure that makes sense.

Hi Erica,

It sure makes sense, as Fouchard, coming from the Flemish Volckaert, a still existing surname, is indicating an office or a characteristic by its ending on -aert. The structure of Viking-occupied Flemish society to the north-west of the river Leie in the 9th and 10th century is not yet fully understood, but is slowly advancing. My hypothesis is that Yves was the ‘Volckaert’ of his town who was responsible for it to the Viking authorities.

We need more proof and context to be sure.

Kind regards. Carl Gustav Verbraeken.

Carl Gustav Verbraeken - thank you! Are we comfortable asserting that Ivo of Ham was the same person as Fouchard, châtelain de Ham, merging the profiles, and naming him decently?

And, apparently there’s been two (or more) different “Beamont” lines conflated, as well as wives with “jumped up” ancestry thrown in, like Geila/Gisla the venerable de Vermandois.

Hi Erica,

I think that we can maintain the hypothesis that Fouchard de Ham and Yves, father of Yves de Beaumont are the same person.
For the moment I wouldn't go further (thinking about the 2 Beaumont lines) until new facts are found.
We see the following dynamics in the evolution of that family:

1) In the early 10th century, there still was a real Viking influence in what is now Artois.

2) The family seems to have fled from the Viking zone in Artois to Vermandois, which is now some 200 km eastward, around Saint-Quentin and under the French king. They established themselves there to organize the expulsion of the remaining Vikings by French king's army. This not only happened between Vermandois and Artois, but also in the Holy Roman Empire e.g. between Echternach and Antwerp and in several other regions, - not always succesful however. It was a matter of tenths of years;

It could lead us to a better understaning of the 10th century politics in a place which was rather obscure until now.

We’ll proceed gingerly, then. My main objective would be to disambiguate the mixed together Beaumont’s, and leave you with the obscure ones. (Grin)