Thomas Benjamin Trent - Trent problems

Started by Private User on Friday, June 3, 2022
Problem with this page?

Participants:

Profiles Mentioned:

Showing all 16 posts

@Erica Howton I'm involved in the Trent Y-DNA project, which has a project participant claiming descent from Thomas Benjamin Trent Based on the results there, Thomas can not be a descendant of Frederick Trent, since their Y DNA doesn't match. Frederick is Group 2 and Thomas is Group 1, which descends from William Trent BTW William has no known middle name, so we should cut the "Alexander".

The documentation isn't available that would let us trace Thomas Benjamin Trent all the way back to William Trent - there are probably two or three missing generations. But the DNA says that this is where he belongs, and there is no known documentation that could be used to tie him to Frederick Trent instead.

William is shown as the son of Henry Trent, of Varina Parish which is sort of true and sort of false. We believe that William grew up in Henry's household, but the DNA indicates that he is not Henry's biological son. BTW Henry's parents are unknown, and in the past I've tried to get him disconnected from the "ancestors" that are currently shown for him. At present they're still attached, but I would be grateful if they were disconnected and he was given Unknown parents instead. .

Frederick is kind of a murky character and there are some unresolved issues about his wives and exactly who was the mother of his children. There has been a debate about whether there two Fredericks or just one, but the available evidence points toward there being just one. So a while back, I asked that the two Fredericks (both created by me) that were on Geni at the time be merged into just one, which was apparently done. This is the profile that survived the merge: Frederick S. Trent, Sr. But now it looks like someone has added back the second, unwanted Frederick: Frederick Trent, Jr. There really is a Frederick Junior, but it isn't this guy. It's this one: Frederick Trent, Ill If you're interested in reading about the documentation for Frederick, I have a long article on it here: http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/chzonie/trentfredericks.html There are a lot of internet sites showing "doppelganger Frederick" so locking the profiles is probably the only way to keep people from adding the extra Frederick back to the tree.

But that's not all! Frederick's father Major William Trent was originally shown as a son of William Trent until the DNA project showed that he couldn't be a biological son. William Trent & Ursula Branch really did have a son named William, who is not currently listed among their children. We don't know if "my" William is from an unrelated family, or if this is another non-paternity event within the same Trent line. But we do know that his father is definitely not the founder of Trenton. The Trent DNA project was originally begun to find out whether the Trents of Varina Parish were related to the founder of Trenton, and the results said there was no connection.

The "fur trader" history that's currently attached to Frederick's father belongs to someone else (maybe the actual son of the founder of Trenton). The children are a mess too; there are people who belong here and people who don't. To prevent future problems, it might be wise to separate the profiles and give "my" William parents named Unknown, or even add him back to William & Ursula as a traditional but non-biological son.

I can split this up into several separate discussions if you want me to. Thanks!

Also tagging Aaron Furtado Baldwin, UE9006698 as he’s been working on the Trent tree. A single discussion is easier, I think.

Thank you Erica Howton are there track changes here? When Private User brought this up in an email earlier today I looked at it and don't believe I've seen this profile before.

Aaron

I just discovered this profile today. Aaron and I have been talking to some Trent experts by email. The conversation isn't over yet, but the message so far is that we don't know who Thomas B's parents were, and that IF his middle initial was actually B then it was more likely to stand for Black or Blake than Benjamin.

There is some speculation that his father may have been named William Trent. There's an article at https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/trent/2993/ talking about the records that we have for Thomas B. In reading the article, it definitely helps if you already know who the major players are, and I don't. But I may have more information on it later.

The details of the DNA evidence are probably more than you want to look at. But in case you're interested, I have a discussion of the connections between the different groups at http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/chzonie/trentdna.html and a family tree showing the DNA-tested branches at http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/chzonie/trentfamilytree.html The family tree helped me quickly determine that Thomas B. has been linked to Group 1 (the descendants of William/Ursula)

More info on the article at https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/trent/2993/ William and Priscilla are the potential parents of Thomas B, and Archibald, Henry and Milton are potential brothers. The article was written before the DNA project, and at present the DNA project includes descendants of Archibald and Milton, as well as a descendant of Thomas B. The descendant of Archibald is also Group 1, so Archibald and Thomas B could be brothers. The descendant of Milton doesn't match any of the groups, leading to speculation that he might be the illegitimate son of a Trent female.

BTW there is a Family Search profile for Thomas B that says Frederick is his father: https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/2X97-P69 I'm not active on Family Search (or WikiTree either) so this is not going to be corrected by me. The Thomas B - Frederick connection is likely to come back on Geni unless something is done to prevent it.

Erica Howton Another Trent-related issue has come to my attention. We have two profiles for Obediah Henry Trent with different parents on each one, and both sets of parents are wrong. I only know of two documented people named Obediah Henry Trent, and the second one is the grandson of the first.

The profile at Obediah Henry Trent, Sr. shows him descending from the “Alexander” line of Henry Trent, of Varina Parish aka Henry the Immigrant. The wife on Obediah’s profile is correct. On Henry the Immigrant’s profile, Peterfield Trent and Elizabeth Cocke do not belong in the list of children.

The profile at Obediah Henry Trent shows Obediah coming from the “Henry Junior” line, also descended from Henry the Immigrant.

Obediah is actually the son of a man who is often called Henry Trent of Amherst. I can’t find a profile for him on Geni. Henry of Amherst has no known connection to Henry the Immigrant. Before the DNA project there was evidence-based speculation that he might be the son of John Trent But now we know that this can’t be true unless Henry the Immigrant had more than one non-biological son living in his household. I have family tree information for Henry of Amherst at http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/chzonie/trentfamilytree.html#... (scroll down to the blue section). His wife’s name is unknown. I have more information in the last paragraph at http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/chzonie/trentdna.html#nextgen You can find more by googling Henry Trent Amherst

Henry of Amherst has the same DNA type as the William Trent who married Sarah Bryant (currently listed at Major William Trent with the wrong parents and other issues). Henry and William are obviously related but we don’t know the connection. Probably not father/son, but brothers, cousins, or uncle/nephew are all possible.

Most of Henry of Amherst’s children are included in the profile for Henry Trent, Ill who is a genuine descendant of Henry the Immigrant. We can’t actually document any of the children of Henry V (who should be called Henry 3 because the first two Henrys on Geni are fictitious). But Trent researchers have compiled a list of 15 people that they suspect are his children. I can provide this list if you want it; the dates are more precise than most of the profiles.

I haven’t checked the dates and other information for the children on Henry V’s profile, just the names. The children on this profile that actually belong to Henry of Amherst are:
John Blake Trent
Eady Trent
Martha Patsy Trent
Obediah Henry Trent
There is also a daughter Sally who is not on the profile.

The children that researchers suspect do belong to Henry V are
Henry Trent, IV
Priscilla Wilson
Alexander Trent
Edith Elizabeth Moore
William Trent, but there are two of them listed on the profile and I haven’t tried to figure out which one is more accurate.
Stephen Trent
Simon Trent
Thomas Trent
Soloman Trent First name should be Solomon
Abel Trent
Nathaniel Trent
Edward Trent

The children on the profile that aren’t on the researchers’ list are:
Josie Trent However there is a son Josiah who is not on the profile. Josiah(#1) Trent (b.ca.1753) md. ??
James Trent

There are two more sons proposed by researchers who aren’t on the profile:
(Capt.) John Trent/Trant (b.ca.1752) md. Judith ?? of GA
Purnell Trent (b.ca.1761) md. ??

Thank you.

Re the incorrect children of Henry Trent, of Varina Parish

Peter Field Trent seems to be completely fictional. There were several real Peterfield Trents, descended from Henry’s son Alexander, but the earliest one was born in 1732. This profile says this one was born between 1662 and 1710.

Elizabeth Cocke no clue who this is either. Alexander Trent, Sr. had some stepchildren named Cocke, but the internet isn’t reporting one named Elizabeth.

As long as I’m listing all the Trent problems that I’ve spotted recently, I may as well go whole hog. We could all make a career out of fixing the problems on just this one family! This might be more than anybody wants to deal with, but I'm going to post it anyway.

Henry Sherman, of Varina Parish has two documented children – Ann Sherman Branch and Elizabeth Sherman Trent Gee. The other three children attributed to him (John Sherman, Rebecca Sherman, and Henry junior) have no known connection.

Alexander Trent, Ill has far too many children attached to him. https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/z/a/j/Scott-A-Zajac/GENE4-0001.html (the Zajac site) is a well-documented Trent genealogy site that is mostly accurate. It was written before the DNA project so it doesn’t include the effects of that little bombshell.

Children on Alexander 3’s Geni profile who are also listed on the Zajac site at https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/z/a/j/Scott-A-Zajac/GENE4-0005.html#C...
Frances Trent however her mother is wrong on Geni. It was Elizabeth Woodson, not Frances Scott. Frances Trent the daughter did not die at birth as reported on Geni. Wikitree has a list of her children at https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Trent-138 but I haven't fact-checked it.
There is a daughter Elizabeth who is not on the Geni profile.
Alexander 4, who is listed twice among the children of Alexander 3. This one has the right mother: Alexander Trent, IV This one has the wrong mother: Alexander Trent, IV
Colonel John Archer Trent
Peter Field Trent however his first name should be Peterfield, not Peter Field
Stephen Woodson Trent

Children on Alexander 3’s profile who are not on the Zajac site:
Lumina Mira Finch she has a Family Search page at https://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/LVD6-6PQ/lumina-trent-1752-1838 According to https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/z/a/j/Scott-A-Zajac/GENE4-0005.html#C... Alexander was married briefly (two years or less) to Frances Scott, but apparently there were no recorded children. The “more about” link on the Zajac page doesn’t work.

Zachariah Trent, Sr. There is a different Alexander Trent with a son named Zachariah. This is him: Alexander Trent, Ill See https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/z/a/j/Scott-A-Zajac/GENE4-0003.html#C...

Thomas Trent, Sr. not familiar with this guy

Obediah Henry Trent, Sr. discussed in an earlier post. Son of Henry Trent of Amherst.

Elijah Trent another son of Alexander Trent, Ill according to https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/z/a/j/Scott-A-Zajac/GENE4-0003.html#C... This Alexander of the William/Ursilla line had a son Alexander junior who married Jane Burton. Jane Burton is listed among the wives of Alexander Trent, IV so two different Alexanders have been blended.

William David Trent, Sr. this looks like William D. Trent who married Charity Burton, and is a speculative son of Alexander Trent, Ill based on DNA type. His parents can not be documented. See http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/chzonie/trentfamilytree.html#... line “D”.

Josiah Trent the paper trail and DNA type say that he is the grandson of Benjamin Trent (William/Ursilla> Benjamin> Alexander m. Frances McTaggart> Josiah. See http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/chzonie/trentfamilytree.html#... and scroll down to the orange section that follows a green section.

William Henry Trent not familiar with this guy

William Peter Field Trent not familiar with this guy either. Maybe a duplicate of Peterfield?

Nicholas Trent not familiar with him. Obediah Henry Trent (son of Henry of Amherst, discussed earlier) had a son named Nicholas born about 1784. I don’t know of any other Nicholas from this time period. See http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/chzonie/trentfamilytree.html#... and scroll down to the blue section.

John Fielding Trent this looks like Field Trent, a descendant of William/Ursilla based on DNA type. His parents are unknown. See http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/chzonie/trentfamilytree.html#...

Benjamin Trent there are several Benjamin Trents, and there’s not enough information to guess which one this is.

Francis Trent not enough information to guess

Field Trent see earlier comments about Field Trent.

Mary Ann Berry not enough information to guess

Note: the only known brother of Alexander 3 was the first Peterfield. They are not known to have a brother named James, who is currently listed on Geni. Sister Elizabeth is correct, and her husband is known. See https://www.genealogy.com/ftm/z/a/j/Scott-A-Zajac/GENE4-0003.html#C...

Thank you. Performance on geni seems a lot better finally, so I was able to do some on Henry Trent, of Varina Parish

I got sidetracked trying to get bios into profiles, and finding Henry Gee, step son, of Bacon’s Rebellion, so the latest post is very helpful. And hint - anyone can add the list of children and references into profiles.

I also read the articles which really oriented me, and will no doubt read again.

Yes, let’s get this all into shape and locked down.

Thank you for all your help! I know it's a big undertaking. This is a confusing family with a lot of people in different branches who all have the same name, and we're not completely sure whether some of the branches are related or not. I think it would be helpful if at least some of the profiles could be turned into Master Profiles to prevent future tampering. Putting links to the Zajac website in the "About" section would be helpful too.

BTW I noticed this note that's currently on Henry the Immigrant's profile:

"I have located Henry Trent on the REGISTER CONTAINING THE BAPTISMS MADE IN THE CHURCH OF THE FRENCH REFUGEES AT MANNIKIN-TOWN IN VIRGINIA, IN THE PARISH OF KING WILLIAM, IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD, 1721, THE 25TH MARCH. 82-DONE BY JAMES SOBLET, 83 CLERK."

I'm not completely sure who this is, but I don't think it's Henry the Immigrant. He's not known to have left Varina Parish after settling there. Also, the year on this statement is wrong. I found this register in a book called "Huguenot emigration to Virginia and to the settlement at manakin-Town", put out by the Virginia Historical Society. I was able to download it online, although I don't remember where I got it. The 1721 baptism register is on page 77 of the book (the printed page number, not the pdf page number) and I don't see Henry Trent there. But there's a 1744 census that starts on printed page 112, with Henry Trent and Jno. C'k listed together on page 114.

I actually made a map several years back tracking the reported movements of Henry of Amherst and Henry the grandson of the Immigrant (who is currently called Henry V on Geni). My best guess is that it's Henry V in the census He was reported in Goochland county from 1739-1746 at https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/trent/3275/ Manakin Town is just barely within the current borders of Goochland.

Also, Henry the Immigrant died in 1701 so it couldn't possibly be him! Sometimes I get so involved in the details that I overlook the obvious.

Additional support for the idea that it's Henry V on the 1744 Manakin Town census. This might be the Jno C'k who's listed on the census with him: John Cocke, Jr. I haven't investigated in detail, but he definitely has a close connection to the family and the profile mentions Goochland in the death location.

Frederick Sr. died 1835 in Gilbert, Mingo County, WV. Agnes Elizabeth "Leddy" Horton died 1840 also in Gilbert, West Virginia. Frederick Trent Jr. is buried at Deskins Cemetery in Mingo County, WV, His siblings are: Brother of Humphrey Trent (1806-1870), Eli Trent (1809-1897), Sarah "Sally" Trent (1810-1893), & Susannah "Susan" Trent (1811-1891).
Frederick Jr. Married Susannah Cline-Trent (1822-Died Before 1869).

Father of Fleming Trent (1841-Deceased), Johnson Trent (1842-Deceased), Patty Trent (1844-Deceased), Molly Trent (1847-Deceased), Smith Trent (1847-Deceased), Hannah Trent-Christian (1851-1934), Humphrey Trent (1852-1927), Alafair "Allie" Trent-Cline (1857-Deceased), Harman Trent (1852-1940), Alexander Trent (1860-Deceased), Susan Harriett Trent-Mullins (1860-1946) & Peter Trent (1862-Deceased).

There is no documentation for the death of Frederick senior and his wife. Frederick probably died around 1832-1835 but we don't know exactly when and we certainly don't know where. He seems to have traveled around a lot and the last record of him is in Russell County in 1832. There are a lot of mysteries around his wife or wives. There was a Lydia and an Agnes who may or may not have been the same person, but there is no actual documentation for Agnes having a middle name. There are probably several more children than the "standard" five mentioned in Ragland's book. I have an article on Frederick at http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/chzonie/trentfredericks.html

Frederick Junior is well documented. He was married twice and had about 20 children. I think the exact number is 21 but I'm not sure off the top of my head.

Showing all 16 posts

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion