Rabbi Naftali Herz Katz - Connection to his father

Private User added him, perhaps he can chime in.

In terms of the relationship between Akiva and the Naftali, it has become apparent that there is no connection between the two of them and that the connection was an accident on the part of Private User. I asked him what evidence he had of the connection and if it’s true at all and he said that he did son“years ago, it's not true.” It’s possible that he mixed up the Shach’s ggg grandfather Naftali Herz HaKohen and Akiva’s son Yitzchak HaKohen with the smichas chachamim Naftali Hirsh HaKohen of Posen and his father Yitzchak HaKohen of Lublin. Until Yossi did so by accident, there was no information ever found connecting them to begin with, and the general assumption was that the connection did exist and that verifiable information did exist, learning many of us to make our own conclusions.

I’ve received a number of messages regarding this issue recently so I’ve decided to clarify what I believe occurred.

At this point the only thing we know about Naftali’s ancestors is that they came from the קאני (Kani?) family of Kohanim from Frankfurt, although I haven’t seen any information about them and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Eli Rubin

This is what I know about it:
When Naftali Wakstein and I worked on my grandfather's side, and he told me that my grandfather (and I too) son after son to:
Rabbi Yitzhak haKohen Katz, [Maharal s.in law]

But, he is not a descendant of
Rabbi Akiva Hakohen Katz, ABD Saloniki (Alter of Salonika)

This is a mistake that has been copied into many books
Personally, it doesn't matter to me, because through my grandmother I am a descendant of Rabbi Akiva Katz

But, if you cut it, some person can always quote from many books that have exactly the same information as the information now appearing in Geni

Legend of descent from an Akiva of Salonika was probably invented by R' Yosef Cohen Zedek (see Elef Margoliot # 186), the same person who Rosenstein says was responsible for creating the legend that Dreyzel Auerbach is actually Miryam Luria, regarding descent from Rashi (The Lurie Legacy by Neil Rosenstein, Avotaynu (New Jersey) 2004, p. 277: pageis imaged as media on profile of Dreizel Miriam Zeisel Schrenzel, [ReMA Gd.mother] https://www.geni.com/photo/view?album_type=photos_of_me&id=6000...).

Taking this one step further, the connection between HaGaon Rabbi Akiva HaCohen Katz, of Ofen and Rabbi Yitzhak HaCohen Katz, [of Galata] isn't documented by extrinsic and contemporaneous evidence, which means there isn't a known connection between Akiva of Uban and anyone from Salonika, Galata, or Sepharad. Akiva of Uban's line should end with him, or a father names Menachem (according to Jacobi Papers: Vol. 2, p. 29, 17.1m).

Is there any “extrinsic and contemporaneous evidence” that either of them existed to begin with? Even if not, that isn’t necessarily proof that they never existed, although you’re absolutely right that the lack of primary sources raises eyebrows. I wouldn’t go so far as to say for certain that they never existed, but I wouldn’t accept that they did exist or that they were connected as a given.

In terms of Akiva’s father being Menachem, I’ve only seen that in a few, modern, sources.

That's a very good question. I haven't seen any yetm but I agree there's no harm in keeping the Akiva Elder>Yitzach>Chaim line on the table. I would be in favor of either disconnecting HaGaon Rabbi Akiva HaCohen Katz, of Ofen from Rabbi Yitzhak HaCohen Katz, [of Galata] or writing on both profiles something like: "The father-son relationship between XXX and YYY is dubious-- no evidence of this connection has been found apart from several 19th Century genealogies claiming for such a relationship."

Eli Rubin

Where is it written that Akiva's father was Menachem?

The thing I did see and wrote about in previous discussions is that Akiva is a descendant of Rabbi Yehuda Chassid...since Yehuda was a Levite, and Akiva was Choen, it must be through an ancient mother/mothers

Private User said “Akiva of Uban's line should end with him, or a father names Menachem” and I was just noting that I’ve only seen that in Encyclopedia Judaica and other similar publications, but I’ve never seen the name Menachem recorded anywhere else.