King David of Israel - Did something change?

If you change something that’s why you probably lost the path to him.

I used to have a pathway to him too.

Geni alters trees that's all I can think of

Stephanie Taylor

https://www.davidicdynasty.org/surnames-believed-to-be-of-davidic-d...

I love the Davidian links. Close to home as Judeo Christian !!

He is still my 93rd great grandfather!

I lost my direct lineage as well. I don't know what happened. as a Judeo Christian, I believe in my Davidian heritage. I am working on the 11th - 13th-century documentation but before and after that, there seems to be verification of the line, at least according to the work already being done by other genealogists. And then there is biblical history that cannot be debated in this forum because it is a matter of personal belief, much as those who believe that there is no proof or solid evidence found. Everyone can express their thoughts here without feelings of repercussion, true? For those who believe in Davidian roots, we are just curious as to what happened to our ancestor...my 10th G Grandmother Michelle David would wonder, as well! LOL!

While it wouldn't meet today's Genealogical Standard Of Proof, the lineages recorded in the Bible would seem as valid as my family genealogy recorded in my family Bible. In fact, the Bible record is arguably more contemporary than Grandma's best recollection of people dead for decades.

Further down, some of the accounts do seem downright fanciful, whether wittingly or unwittingly.

So Geni sent me earlier:

Ingrīda Cinkmane (Dzelvīte) is related to King David of Israel
King David of Israel is Ingrīda Cinkmane (Dzelvīte)'s 19th cousin 66 times removed
See how you are connected to King David of Israel

David

She's even less proven as Vasak's daughter, though. So why use that as a replacement?

"according to Vardan, she was the daughter of Vasak [VI] prince of Siunik[258]"

"The Chronicle of Matthew of Edessa records that the mother of Yovhanes was “la reine Gadramidtkh…fille du roi de Géorgie, Kourke”[256]. It is assumed that this is intended to mean that she was the daughter of Gurgen [I] Prince of Kartli."

(Yet #258 does not directly cite Vardan in the footnote. It cites a footnote in Matthew of Edessa.)

Thank-you Cheley - for being the voice of reason.

Sharon Doubell thank you for being the voice of reason.

Genealogy connections are meaningless unless there are verifiable sources backing them up. Just because we "want" them to be true doesn't make it true. The dedicated people here are doing their best to only provide verified connections. The Katramide of Kartli thread is a perfect example.

My wife's direct connections to the ancient world - Sasanians, Bosphorans, Macedonians, Kushans, etc. were all severed when Gurgen I was removed as Katramide's father. Just because I want that to be true doesn't make it so.

I've since spent hours researching the issue and discovered that the evidence is quite compelling that Vasak of Siunik was in fact her father. She says so herself in the inscription she wrote on the southern facade of Ani Cathedral:

"In the year 450 (AD 1001) of the Armenians ... at the time of Sarkis, honoured by God and Katholikos, spiritual lord of the Armenians, and during the glorious reign of Gagik, shahanshah of the Armenians and of the Georgians, I Katranideh, Queen of the Armenians, daughter of Vasak, King of Siunik, entrusted myself to the mercy of God and, by order of my husband Gagik shahanshah, built this holy cathedral, which the great Smbat had founded..."

- Part of a 21 line inscription on the
southern facade of the Cathedral

This has nothing to do with "cancel culture". Genealogy is a science, not an art. If there is a paper trail (or, like in this case, a stone trail) then it is supported. All the direct connections to antiquity are dubious at best, so maybe concentrate on finding verified documentation instead of complaining when something changes.

I'm sure everyone posting here *is* connected in some way to David, the rabbi lines, etc., but it's more legend than fact unless there is concrete proof. Just my opinion of course, but I'd rather see the proven connections than the speculated ones.

Andy Leskowitz (Elizabeth's husband using her account)

Andy Leskowitz makes some good points.

I have a rule of thumb I call "The 1500 Rule", which has three parts:
1) A chain is only as strong as its weakest link - and you can also calculate how far the chain can go based on how firm the average link is. For example, if each link you have to the next generation is 90% sure to be right (that's an "A" when I went to school), then after just 7 generations the whole chain is less than 50% sure. If each link is 95% sure to be right, you can get out to 13 generations before the chain dips below the 50% chance of being right overall. So that means a) a genealogist needs to be REALLY PICKY about each link in order to get more than just a muddle of mush several generations back. And getting good information/documentation gets harder and harder the further back you go (it helps if your ancestor was prominent or had some valuable property for heirs).
2) Everyone has a biological mother and father; their parents did, making four grandparents, then eight great-grandparents, etc. Making some good estimates, by the time a present day adult counts up all their ancestors, by the time you get back to the year 1500 you have as many ancestors as the population of Europe. Since the population of Europe was basically static from 1400-1500, if you are mostly European you can assume you are related closely to - if not descended from - every European alive in 1500. At this point, documentation is less certain than the mathematics (which assumes no cousins marry along the way, but that's fairly rare anyway). So you most likely won't find your link to Columbus documented, but he was kin.
3) According to genome.gov, there are about 3 billion base molecules in human DNA. So if you get roughly half your DNA from your mother and half from your father (I know, it isn't exactly half-this is just a rule of thumb, after all), and about a quarter from each grandparent, etc., then after 32 generations it's doubtful if you got even a single molecule from any specific ancestor.

I tested this with Geni's "Magna Carta Sureties and Witnesses" project. There were 25 Barons who were sureties for the Magna Carta in 1215 - that's much farther back than 1500, but not all of my family tree is documented beyond 6 generations or so, so it seemed a fair test. Of the 25, 14 of those Barons were direct ancestors, 8 were brothers of a direct ancestor, one was a 2nd cousin, one was a third cousin, and the last had no known connection. Not bragging, theoretically every one of you should get similar results if the documentation goes back far enough.

Charlemagne is my 34th great-grandfather; very cool! Not unique to me though, and it's a sure bet that I didn't inherit his eyes - or anything else in particular.

As to David, that's very cool too, and I'd bet that I too am descended closely from his family in some way... I just can't prove it - but knowing the math, and how far back David was, I don't feel the need to prove that (and it would be really HARD - remember part 1) of the 1500 rule).

Seems to me too many on GENI treat genealogy as a Religion.
They believe they are descendant of Charlemagne via the Order of Big Ears belived to have been founded in 802 and went to USA on the the good ship lollipop according to tradition.
Dan Brown definitely wrote this ancestry.

Peter Joseph Forsling thanks for the excellent summary. It's lots of fun to think we are direct descendants of Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great or King David - and like Peter says, most of us likely are. But being somewhat close to 100% certain is another story, and the GENi experts are trying to make the site as accurate as possible.

My wife is Charlemagne's 33rd great granddaughter and the Roman Emperor Maximian's 49th great granddaughter. Those two lines are both superbly researched and documented, and yet each contain at least 2 connections that are not 100% certain. The guesswork that goes into the really ancient lines makes them fun to view, but very speculative at best.

Just enjoy the site and its posters for the amazing community of like minded souls! I for one find it the best one out there and I love checking possible connections each and every day.

I created a coin collection based entirely on Elizabeth's ancestral connections (it's up to 150 coins now), and I know that some of the more ancient ones are just guesswork, but that doesn't take away from the fun of learning the history and wondering about lives past.

Andy

Constance Derosier Carter

BRAVISSIMO!
"Everyone can express their thoughts here (Geni) without feelings of repercussion, true?"

There is a idea worth considering.
There are known and documented lines for example for descent of king david, but they are missing names so you have for example; jacob was 23 gens of Judah, and he was 15 from Isaac etc...
I would support entering these lines also, with either blank profiles or profiles called 15 gens or any other idea or development.
Then both groups will be happy, those including myself who are upset at losing a connection, will get their lines back, clearly missing the names of those generation but connected nontheless, and professional geneologists will stay true to their study.
What do you say to this Randy Schoenberg

First of all, thank you, Heather Mclean Olson,...i just feel that we should be able to share our various connections (or not), how we come by them, and maybe tips on how to improve our search or other such things. Because we come into these discussions with a variety of experiences and backgrounds, maybe suggesting or recommending sources of a certain type might be helpful and why we find them necessary or useful in our search. I think Sharon Doubell explained it quite well in her first post in this particular discussion." The paper trail " as she called it, I found to be extremely important. For example, for years I had a birthdate for my g grandmother that I got off of a genealogy website. That birthdate was gleaned from a document but not a legitimate birth certificate. I had been looking for one for years but couldn't find one. I had a helper who finally found one this past year. The date was wrong by 13 years and her last name was spelled completely different. She changed the spelling of her name about the time she was married. By finding the ORIGINAL birth certificate, I was able to track down her parents and grandparents. Now I'm aware that those medieval documents can be hard to come by... but I have found that any legitimate sources that I find to be of great value. For those of you who are pros, Block your ears! LOL! I'm preaching to the choir! For those of you just starting out, I hope it helps to understand the type of source Sharon was talking about. And all of us in between, we are just doing the best we can. The questions come when we look at exactly what a legitimate source is. It's great to make the connection by following a lead but it IS important to verify with reliable documentation. I think there are many here who can tell us about various sources such as birth certificates and the like. I definitely have all kinds of legal documents that I have collected. Not all are posted but I have them in my personal documents. For me, my most cherished source is my Memere's Bible. It has info on my French side (paternal) that was written inside the middle of the Bible and handed down thru the generations. Because it is a bible, it has information on King David's lineage, as well! Now some would not consider this a legitimate source while others would. Who will this hurt if someone believes this? Moving on from personal opinion....The goal here is to try to find the lost connections, if possible, to King David, and gain an understanding of citing (finding and documenting) sources for your lineage and those who follow you. I would also say, my hope is to gain mutual respect even if we look at our genealogy work from different perspectives. Besides, since I live in Florida, I live near the "Order of Big Ears" which is not that far from the Good Ship Lollipop! It's really nice here...you should try it some time! 😊

Kyle, I will look thru my original lineage with documentation and see exactly where the documentation is missing. let's see if that is something that might help both of us,