Roger Bigod, I, Earl of East Anglia - Source

Started by Sharon Elizabeth Richards on Thursday, November 25, 2021
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11/25/2021 at 8:31 AM

FMG makes no mention of Adeline de Grantmesnil - where did this come from?

11/25/2021 at 9:26 AM

FMG does give him Adeline, though her parentage is not given.

The Overview to the profile explains the differing theories; in essence, Wikipedia says that the two women used to be considered two different people but now are considered one person; FMG states that because of wording in a document they must be two people, but that it depends upon how a Latin phrase is interpreted, and they might be one person.

Private User
11/25/2021 at 2:35 PM

But if the wording in "a document" means they must be two people, shouldn't that be enough to settle the ambiguity of the Latin interpretation?

11/25/2021 at 2:55 PM

Roger Bigod, I, Earl of East Anglia is my 30th great grandfather.

11/25/2021 at 3:37 PM

Private User -- it's a charter that gives gifts for the soul -- and that can mean that Adeline is dead, but it might not mean that Adeline is dead. And Adeline and Adelise and Adelaise are the same name. So yes. There might be two people. Or there might be one. This is one of the cases (not unusual in the Middle Ages) where scholars can rightly differ.

This is what FMG says --

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[m firstly ADELAIS, daughter of ---. The Liber Vitæ of Durham lists (in order) "Rodgerus Bigodus, Atheles uxor eius, Willelmus filius eorum"[911]. “Willielmus Bigot, dapifer regis Anglorum” donated property to Thetford Priory, for the souls of “patris mei Rogerii Bigoti et matris meæ Adelidis” and for the salvation of “fratris mei Hugonis et sororum mearum”, by undated charter dated to the reign of King Henry I[912]. The Complete Peerage[913] states that the wording of this charter shows that Adelais, mother of William, was deceased at the time, and must therefore have been a different person from Adelise de Tosny, Roger Bigod's [second] wife, who was recorded as alive in 1136. However, the question is open to debate as “pro anima” clauses are often difficult to interpret accurately.]

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The Grantmesnil part, though, I can't speak for.

11/25/2021 at 3:41 PM

Wikipedia doesn't give its source for the opinion there, by the way, so there's that.

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