John Melville - Need help, please.

According to the book, our best source:

Galfridus de Melville, Sheriff of Edinburgh

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Sir Gregory Melville, Lord of Melville

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Sir Richard Melville, Lord of Melville, Sheriff of Linlithgow

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Lord Stephen Melville

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Walter Melville

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John Melville

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Walter Melville

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p. 12: "Richard Melville had, so far as has been ascertained, only one son, who
succeeded to his estates." Evidently, that would be William de Melville

John Melville, Lord of Melville (Lord of that Ilk), c. 1320-1345, succeeded his father and grandfather before 1329, but how long before that date does not appear.

And so continues the senior branch of Melvilles. The Lords of Raith were a cadet branch. I don't find any Thomas Melville "Laird of Raith" in this book. The Thomases of that era are all listed under the senior lineage. Thomas Melville "of that Ilk" (died 1458) was the last of the senior line (Lords of Melville).

The textbook tells us that around the same time the senior line had begun to fade away, the cadet branch known as the Lords of Raith took root. (p. 23)

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Genealogy of the House of Raith, according to one of their early direct descendants, John of Melville, who in 1575 stated:

1. Sir Stephen Melville married the daughter of the Lord of Lornes. Possibly someone related to Robert Stewart, 1st Lord Lorn

2. Stephen's son, Sir John Melville, married the daughter of the Lord of Balwearies, possibly Sir Michael Scott baron of Balwearie, III

http://www.stravaiging.com/history/castle/balwearie-castle/

3. Their son, William Melville, married the niece of the Earl of Morton through the Earl's brother who was the Lord of Longniddry. Possibly someone related to George Douglas of Longniddry. "The lands of this branch of the Douglas family were at Longniddry in East Lothian." And to James Douglas, 1st Earl of Morton

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Douglas,_1st_Earl_of_Morton

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Douglas_of_Longniddry

This William Melville married at least twice, the second to the daughter of Sir Robert Lundy, 1st of Balgonie , treasurer of Scotland. Lundy has a daughter, Christian Lundie who is unmarried on Geni.

4. the son of William Melville with his first wife, John Melville of Raith, married the daughter of the Lord of Ross. This may be how the Leslies connected with the Melvilles.

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/SCOTTISH%20NOBILITY%20LATER.htm#_T...

5. John Melville of Raith begat Sir John Melville who married the daughter of the Lord of Wemyss of that Ilk. Around that time Wemyss's intermarried with Lundys and Douglases. So possibly related to Sir John Wemyss of Wemyss, Strathardle

Evidently, in 1427 a Melville of this line "entered into an agreement with Sir John Wemyss as to a mill-dam from Loch Gelly to Melville’s mill of Pitconmark."

https://venitap.com/Genealogy/WebCards/ps48/ps48_391.html

Sir John Melville had progeny with his first wife, but none of their sons lived to succeed him as heirs...He then married again, to Dame Elene Nepar, who was the niece of the lord of Mercamston through his brother. Her mother was the lord of Craigmiller's daughter.

6. With Elene Nepar, Sir John Melville begat 9 sons and 2 daughters. Their eldest son, John Melville, succeeded to the lands of the Raith.

In 1553, this John Melville married the daughter of the Lord of Lundy of that Ilk..."Anne, who married John Melville of Carnbee. He received a charter of this land dated 14th August 1496. They had issue: i John Melville of Carnbee, who succeeded. In memory of his mother he added a part of the Arms of Lundin to those of his own."

https://electricscotland.com/webclans/htol/lundin4.html

7. John Melville of Carnbee married three times, with no progeny from the first marriage. His second wife was Margaret Bonar, daughter of the Lord of Ross. If I interpret "Rosseis" correctly, perhaps she was related to James Ross, Lord Ross

8. Thomas Melville, son of John Melville of Carnbee and Margaret Bonar.

(John Melville of Carnbee married thirdly the daughter of the Lord of Segy, with whom he begat one son, James Melville, and three daughters. James Melville and his heirs sold the town and lands of Feddinche.)

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The genealogical chart in the textbook continues the Melville lineage with the Melvilles of Raith without making any direct connection to Walter Melville although they are shown below his name on the chart. In other words, there is a break in the line between Walter and the "First of Raith".

JOHN MELVILLE, first of Raith, who had a charter of Pitscottie, in Fife, from William Scott of Balwearie, in the reign of Robert III. John Melville, 1st of Raith His son,

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John Melville, 2nd of Raith

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Sir William Melville, 3rd of Raith

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JOHN MELVILLE, fiar of Raith. He granted a bond of manrent on 16th August 1487 to Sir John Wemyss of that Ilk. In 1491, on his father's resignation, he obtained the family estates of Raith, and some litigation subsequently took place between him and his father. He married Janet Bonar, daughter of the laird of Rossie, who survived him. John Melville of Raith He predeceased his father between June 1493 and June 1494, but left two sons,

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John Melville, 4th of Raith

He married, first, Margaret Wemyss, daughter of Sir John Wemyss of that Ilk, by whom he had a son and daughter: secondly, Helen, eldest daughter of Sir Alexander Napier of Merchiston, who survived him, dying about 1588, by whom also he had issue.

His son with Margaret Wemyss, William Melville, married Margaret Douglas but died without issue. With his second wife, Helen Napier, he had at least six sons and two daughters. The eldest son was his heir, John Melville, 5th of Raith

(His brother was David Melville, burgess of Edinburgh, who married and left a son, Walter Melville.)

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John Melville, 5th of Raith

John Melville, 5th of Raith, who was restored to his father's forfeited estates on 4th June 1563. He married, first, Isobel, daughter of the laird of Lundie, by whom he had one son and two daughters;

secondly, Margaret Bonar, who died in October 1574, also leaving issue;

and thirdly, Grissel Meldrum, daughter of the laird of Seggie, who like-wise predeceased him in 1597, leaving issue. He died in March 1605.

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Presumably, his eldest son and heir (with Isobel Lundy) was JOHN MELVILLE, 6th of Raith (not represented on Geni? Or somehow disconnected?). In 1602 he obtained a charter of the lands of Raith and others. He married, in 1584, Margaret, daughter of Sir William Scott of Balwearie, who survived him. He died on 17th January 1626, leaving issue,

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JOHN MELVILLE, seventh of Raith, third Lord Melville, succeeded his father in Raith in 1626, and in 1635 succeeded his cousin, Robert, second Lord Melville, in his honours. He married, contract dated 27th October 1627, Anne, elder daughter and coheiress of Sir George Erskine, Lord Innertiel, a brother of the first Earl of Kellie. She survived her husband, being still alive in 1648. He died on 22d May 1643, leaving issue. Lord John Melville, 3rd Lord Melville of Monimail

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George Melville, 1st Earl of Melville

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Alexander Melville, Lord Raith

Alexander's sons left no progeny, leaving the estate and titles to one of his younger brothers, David Melville, 3rd Earl of Leven

And so on. Sorry to be so long-winded, but this is the only way I can begin to understand this pedigree.

"In 1553, this John Melville married the daughter of the Lord of Lundy of that Ilk."

1553 probably should read "1463" instead. (The date was given quite informally as "lxiij", but the author wrote this in 1575).

Hi, Erica Howton The first section in my study above is the part of the Melville family pedigree representing their origins. At Lord Stephen Melville I took a right instead of a left, in order to pursue the cadet Raith branch. The upper (origins) portion of the cadet branch ended at Walter Melville before breaking.

Using the pedigree chart in the book, (in the fourth/last section) I constructed the lower part of the cadet branch, known as the Melvilles of Raith, which continued following the break in the line after Walter.

The second section is composed of a few notes that I found helpful in understanding how the lines split apart. William de Melville who is actually Sir Richard Melville, Lord of Melville, Sheriff of Linlithgow 's eldest son, was heir to the senior branch, leaving his brother Walter Melville to produce the seeds that later formed the Raith line. (I gather.)

The third section is my rather crude transcription and interpretation of the testimony authored by John Melville in 1575. I find that in essence it compares favorably with the pedigree chart published by Sir William Fraser in his genealogy of the family.

I'm guessing the missing piece (John Melville, 6th of Raith, who should be right in between the 5th and the 7th) -- is this guy: Sir John Melville, 6th of Raith

The 6th of Raith is correctly married to Margaret Scott -- but his parents are wrong !

I believe he should be disconnected from his current parents ( John Melville and Matilda Christian Bethune )

...and then connected to his real parents ( John Melville, 5th of Raith and Isobel Lundie )

Lord John Melville, 3rd Lord Melville of Monimail held two titles (one being the 7th of Raith, the other was 3rd Lord Melville which he inherited when he succeeded his cousin, Robert, second Lord Melville).

This means his father should be John Melville, 6th of Raith (married to Margaret Scott, his mother).

Fraser, who was a prolific and apparently quite knowledgable genealogist, published a massive 3 volume text on the Wemyss family, with an extensive pedigree chart beginning on page 409 of this copy. But I don't find any Thomas Wemyss on there (except one who seems to have been fairly insignificant as no information was included for him other than that he was possibly one of five sons who "went to Flanders").

https://archive.org/details/memorialsoffamil01fras/page/814/mode/1u...

So far, I find no evidence that Alexander Melville of Glenbervie existed, although I'm just getting started with it.

I only find that there was an Isobel, daughter of John Melville, 5th of Raith by one of his three wives, who married in 1588 GEORGE Auchinleck of Balmanno.

Sir George Auchinleck, 2nd of Balmanno

No mention in the Melville book of any "John" Auchinleck.

https://archive.org/details/melvillesearlsv100fras/page/172/mode/1u...

https://archive.org/details/melvillesearlsv100fras/page/446/mode/1u...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auchinleck_House

Auchinleck Castle was recorded as being extant in 1241. At that time, the castle was the seat of the Auchinlecks of that Ilk, who had held the barony since at least the 13th century and possibly earlier. The castle, and the barony, remained within the Auchinleck family until 1504 when due to a failing Auchinleck male line, and the marriage of a daughter of Sir John Auchinleck to a Thomas Boswell, the estate and the title were granted to Boswell by King James IV. Boswell assumed the title of laird from that date.

Thank you so much, Erica!

I also cannot find Alexander Melville 1382. There is am Alexander Fifth Earl of Leven and Fourth Earl of Melville 1729-1754.
he married first - Mary Erskine, secondly - Elizabeth Monypenny. Hope this helps.

Thank you, Raymond. The profile has 35 sources cited, but none that are useful for serious genealogy. I guess they are "smart-matches",

But based on our more standard sources I believe the daughter, Elizabeth Melville (aka Isobel/Isabel) is valid, although her father should be John Melville, 5th of Raith (not "Alexander Melville"). And her husband should be Sir George Auchinleck, 2nd of Balmanno (not "John Auchinleck, Laird of Auchinleck").

I don't see any convincing evidence for "Lady Sarah Hay (then Strachan), to be George's wife. The source given does not prove the marriage.
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This man, George Douglas of Pittendreich should have a daughter, "Mary" who married George Auchinleck, 1st of Balmanno

Then their son, Sir George Auchinleck, 2nd of Balmanno#/tab/revision should be married to Elizabeth/Isobel Melville (daughter of John Melville, 5th of Raith).

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/ecco/004896980.0001.000/1:84?rgn=div1;...

Fixing these connections little by little, one at a time, and adding proper sources to relevant profiles, would help to eliminate some of the fragmenting of the Tree. It stands to reason that the noble lines, with all their available sources, would be the easiest to build on. I'm prepared to work on these branches next, if Erica Howton doesn't mind.

Erica Howton I've decided to leave Alexander Melville of Glenbervie alone, since it seems to have been based on this source:

http://www.thepeerage.com/p35706.htm#i357053

So rather than try to remodel something that should be left alone, I think the correct steps to be taken would be to add Isobel Melville as a daughter of John Melville, 5th of Raith

Then connect the newly created Isobel Melville to Sir George Auchinleck, 2nd of Balmanno as his wife

Then disconnect his other, unfounded wife, Lady Sarah (Hay) Auchinleck, Then Strachan until we can find proof (or just good evidence) of their marriage.

We also need to create "Mary" as the daughter of George Douglas of Pittendreich and connect her as the wife of George Auchinleck, 1st of Balmanno

(Mother of George Auchinleck, 2nd of Balmanno).

Okay, I see that you changed "Alison" to "Isobel" :D

By his three wives John Melville [5th] of Raith had three sons and eight daughters : —

1. John Melville, son of the first marriage, who succeeded his father in the estate of Raith. Of him a memoir follows.

2. Mr. Thomas Melville, the son of the second marriage. He is named as a witness in various documents, also as a cautioner in the marriage contract of his niece, Elizabeth Melville, in 1616. He was named executor in the will of Robert, Lord Melville, in 1621. He had a gift of the marriage of his nephew John in 1626. He is named as a legatee in a testament made by his nephew John, Lord Melville, on 8th May 1642, but is omitted in the confirmed testament of 21st April 1643. He probably died between those two dates.

3. James Melville, the son of the third marriage, who, about 1588, was provided to the lands of Feddinch. He died apparently between 1642 and 1652. He had issue, so far as is known, two daughters. The eldest, Jean, is named by her cousin John, third Lord Melville, in 1642, as the intended recipient of 200 merks. She married (contract dated 29th April 1652) Adam Scott, writer in Edinburgh, her dowry being 10,000 merks. 3 Thesecond daughter, Christian, is referred to in 1642 as the probable recipient of 250 merks.

The daughters were : —

1. Margaret, who married, in 1585, James Wemyss of Bogie. She died in October 1598, leaving issue three sons, James, Ludovic, and Patrick Wemyss.

2. Isobel, who married, in 1588, George Auchinleck, younger of Balmanno. She died on 21st December 1593 at Pitterichie, in the parish of Glenbervie, which was her jointure-house, apparently without issue.

3. Agnes Melville,

4. Janet Melville,

Agnes and Janet were named in 1575 as the daughters and executors of their mother, Margaret Bonar, lady of Raith. As no further notice of them has been found, and no provision for their maintenance is recorded, they probably died young.

5. Alison, who married Mr. David Barclay of Touch. She was probably a daughter of the third marriage with Grisell Meldrum. Provision is made for her and her three younger sisters in 1587. Her husband was minister successively at Dailly, Maybole, Dumfries, Kilwinning, and St. Andrews, and was a prominent Presbyterian. Alison Melville died before 1627, and no issue of the marriage is recorded.

6. Margaret, who is named in 1587 as one of the younger daughters of John Melville, and in 1597 as a daughter of Grisell Meldrum. In 1606 she was recommended by her father to the care of her cousin, Sir Robert Melville of Burntisland. She was apparently still unmarried in 1621, when she is named in the will of her uncle Robert, first Lord Melville, as legatee or creditor for 500 merks.

7. Christian, who is named along with her sisters in 1587 and 1597. She was commended by her father to the care of her uncle, Sir James Melville of Hallhill, and is named by Lord Melville, in 1621, as legatee of 500 merks.

8. Katherine, who is described by her father as his youngest daughter, and was commended to the care of his brother Sir Robert, afterwards first Lord Melville, by whose testament, in 1621, she receives 1000 merks.

https://archive.org/details/melvillesearlsv100fras/page/184/mode/1u...

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I only see one daughter (Elizabeth) listed on the Peerage as a daughter of Alexander Melville.

http://www.thepeerage.com/p35706.htm#i357052

However, in the Melville genealogy:

The main line of the Melvilles of Glenbervie continued till the reign of King James the Second, when Elizabeth and Giles or Egidia Melville, daughters and co-heiresses of Alexander Melville of Glenbervie, inherited that property.

Elizabeth Melville married Sir John Auchenleck of that ilk in the county of Ayr, while Giles Melville married James Auchenleck, younger brother of Sir John. The grandchild and heir-female of Sir John Auchenleck and Elizabeth Melville was Elizabeth Auchenleck.

She inherited Glenbervie and married Sir William Douglas of Braidwood, son of Archibald, fifth Earl of Angus, " Bell the Cat." Their descendants became prominent as Douglases of Glenbervie and as Earls of Angus.

(He had two daughters, iow.)

(Oh, and there was an Alison.)