Francois Pilois (de Berthaucourt) - Francois Pilois (de Berthaucourt) relationship to Charles De Billy

I assume after 2 weeks with no response to my question there is no certified link here and if it appears in your tree you may want to question it's authenticity. I'd like also to be able to claim royalty in my tree but only if it's authentic.

https://books.google.com/books?id=eYPq3RQVh5EC&pg=PA123&lpg...

I cannot read French but maybe your answer is in that text?

Thank You Raymond for your response. I also do not speak French but have been pretty successful using the Google French<-> English translation tool in my communications (and my deciphering of documents I find).

Please excuse the lengthy reply, but it may help others understand my
concern on the perceived linkage from Francoise Pilois' father Francois
Pilois to Charles De Billy II. Again, this link, if accurate, would mean
the descendants of Francois may be able to claim a link to French Royalty,
which may be appealing enough to "overlook" reality.

Your link to Father Anselme's works is familiar to me (I have downloaded
all of his volumes to save time with slow websites). The specific link
you sent to page 123 of volume 2 for Charles De Billy II shows 3 children
with Antoinette de Bertaucourt: Jacques who died in 1617, Louis,
and Francois who died in 1654.

I have had the fortune to work with Alexandre Pequy of this website in the
above matter. He lives in France, has a family connection and has been
very gracious and helpful to translate this section into English as follows:

Charles de Billy 2nd of the name of this branch, Lord of Mauregard, of Quesmy (note that the spelling here could be wrongly read as an f but it is an s) of Baricourt & du Pont obtains with his brothers (note the presence of the singular to brother) and sisters sentence at the bailiwick of
Chauny, against Jean de Maquerel, Lord of Tangry, & Antoinette de Billy their guardians on June 30, 1587. He had married, being under the guardianship of the said Jean de Maquerel his maternal uncle, on April 30, 1582. He and his wife, and his sisters jointly sold to Jean de Nicolaï, first
president in the Chamber of Accounts of Paris, and to Marie de Billy his wife, all that they had in the land of Mauregard, of the head of their late father, by contract of April 7, 1588. being him then 25 years old. With his wife's consent, he exchanged the fiefdom of the seigneury of La Motte de
Quesmy on December 14, 1594, for rents which he ceded to Louis de Maquerel, mentioned above: still living on July 24, 1622 he sold to Louis his son, a piece of land located in Baricourt. His Wife (to Charles de Billy 2nd of the name) Antoinette de Bertaucourt (absence of h a Bertaucourt for Anselme thus) married by contract of April 30, 1582. Her husband and she made transfer to their son Louis of some pieces of land located in Baricourt, on August 2, 1618. But, as she is not named in the deed of 25 July 1622, it is presumed that she was dead at that time. (Anselme's supposition). Anselme then gives birth to 3 children:
Jacques de Billy
Louis de Billy (Al's comment- seems Louis was the favorite and got all the land above!)
François de Billy

(end of Alex's comments)

Further on under Francois de Billy at the end it states (my best Google translation here)

"Francois de Billy remarried twice & mesallia. It does not seem that he left any posterity."

Mesallia means marrying someone unsuitable or under your social status. Posterity means children.
So this states Francois had 2 wives who are not documented anywhere by name and there is no record of any children by him. This would mean that any connection between him and any children are guesses (or wishes) at best.

Alex also introduced me to the "Dossiers Bleus" files by Hozier. These are a register of all the nobles requested by King Louis XIV. Seems there were a lot of pretenders in court and he wanted to clean house and understand who had real noble heritage and who did not.

From Alex:

It is said that French noble families have "blue blood" for this reason, since that time.

The name "de Billy" is studied in several large branches in the "Dossier Bleu" n° 96 available online thanks to the National Library of France ; and the Department of French Manuscripts (#29641).

(my note is it is number 97 #29642, not 96, #29641)

I've been retrieved it for you, the study starts on page 213 here:
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b10081356c/f213.image

Continues from page 239 (branch 2)

Then from page 261 (branch 3)

Then from page 282 to 302 (branch 4)

Look at pages 277, 278, 279 there's even a family tree that looks very interesting.
(end of Alex's comments)

Alex sent me some translations of what he found on page 221

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b10081356c/f221.item.zoom

Here is his translation starting from the "XV Charles De Billy II":

To synthesize what is written, this couple married in 1582 (Antoinette's name is here spelled Berthaucourt) the date 1618 following the line presenting the marriage can be either the date of death of Mr or
Mrs (that means that the marriage was over in 1618)
A son Jacques « Maître d'Hotel » of Paul Hurault Archveque d'Aix
(https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hurault_de_L%27Hospital) , gendarme of the company of the Duke of Nevers. Died in 1617.
Louis, who has offspring studied afterwards.
François de Billy lord of Bericourt and Soussay near la Croix en Brie died in 1654.
He married in first marriage in 1632 (marriage contract dated February 3, 1632) Helene Guibert, daughter of the late Pierre Guibert, Conseiller au Procureur du Roy au Prëal de la Rochelle and Marie Juvé; widow of Pierre de Voyen, lord of Morie Lieutenant Criminiel at the Peroidial(?) of La Rochelle.
He had a second and then a third wife: of his last two marriages, known as Mésalliances (it must be understood that the wife was not on the side that suited the King at the time...) are not articulated by Father Ansemle who does not say whether this Francois de Billy had children!

(end of Alex's information).

I am trying to copy Alex on this distribution but I'm not sure if that's possible. His Geneanet name is "alexandrepeguy", and again I owe him a large debt of gratitude to help me both find and wade through these documents.

So the bottom line is I still have no connection between Francois Piloy, father of Francoise Pillois/Piloy/Pitie/DePitie and Charles De Billy II. I believe it may still be possible that there is a connection via one of his two later wives. As Alex indicated to me those children may have been born after Anslem had published his volumes of work. Still, without a confirmed source document or Citation this link should not exist in anyone's tree, and I would be happier than most if someone can produce said source document.

Thanks for listening,
Al

That is very interesting information, I can only assume the original connection came from a source that had some validity to it? If not I wonder where it came from or what the relationship between the two profiles is, if any. Hopefully something turns up that can definitely verify or reject what is currently shown.

As François Pilois is my 9th great-grandfather, I’ve been researching his lineage for a long time. I just came across these messages and they are very helpful.

I too haven’t found any connection with Charles de Billy.

Anyways, I thought maybe you would appreciate some information I do have about his daughter Françoise, my 8th great-gradmother. Or maybe some of my conclusions that are more likely than not… possible.

Being French Canadian, reading old documents is easy. I have found 24 old documents from 1665 to her death in 1713 and her name is written in various ways:
- Pilois 7 times
- Piloy 8 times
- Pitié 6 times
- De Pitié twice

Having found out that as a “fille du roi” born in St-Nicolas-des-Champs in Paris, she was probably in the “Hospice Notre-Dame-de-la-Pitié” where orphans or very poor abandoned girls lived. Therefore, my guess is that whenever an official act says “Pitié”, it was in reference to the place she came from, not because of her name.

Another thing is that she came to New France aboard the Saint-Jean-Baptiste, from Dieppe along with 81 other “Filles à marier”. 48 of these were from Notre-Dame-de-la-Pitié.

As for the name of her parents, François de Pitié and Claudine Poullet are the exact names written on the marriage contract (notaire Aubert).

I also found that there were many Parisians with the name Pilois at the time.

The correct name is, in my opinion Pilois. Of course, that was almost 400 years ago so I’d be happy if someone found evidence of anything else.

Andre',

Thank you so much for your response. Francois Pilois was also my 9th Great Grandfather (and Francoise my 8th Great Grandmother as well), so we are cousins! Your information on her origins in Paris and the Hospice Notre-Dame-de-la-Pitié are very helpful. The ship she immigrated to Quebec on is also new information to me. Thank You for that as well.
I have had no luck searching the French records due mainly to my lack of being able to read French, so this information provides additional background I probably would not have found.

So François' parents remain a mystery, and if indeed Françoise was an orphan abandoned by François and Claudine one wonders if the reason behind her abandonment was financial or political.