Gudrod the Black, King of Man & the North Isles - Who was his mother?

Started by Sharon Doubell on Friday, July 9, 2021
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Showing 61-74 of 74 posts

Thank you, Sharon, glad I could help.

Sharon each time "Black" is used in a medieval context it is never ever attributed to color or ethnicity. Just poking the bear here.

But black isn't used here?

So, now our problem is that the two texts contradict each other outright:

The Orneyingsaga says

  • that Ingibjörg married Olaf Tit-Bit King of the Hebrides (Helga Moddansdóttir var frilla Hákonar jarls ; ...en Ingibjörg dóttir þeirra, er átti Ólafr bitlíngr Suðreyja -konúngr) (p82 of the online version we're using above https://books.googleusercontent.com/books/content?req=AKW5QaesUBUID...)
  • it also says that the mother of Godrodar was Ingibjorg, Earl Hakon Paulsson’s daughter (Móðir Guðröðar var Ingibjörg, dóttir Hákonar jarls Pálssonar - ibid p225)

The Chronicon Manniæ et Insularum tells us (ACCORDING TO CAWLEY :-) that:

  • Olavus filius Godredi Crovan” married “Affricam…filiam Fergus de Galwedia”[1294].
  • and also names “Godredum” as the child of “Olavus filius Godredi Crovan” and his wife “Affricam…filiam Fergus de Galwedia
  • and gives Godred a daughter named Aufrica “filiam Godredi…Affricam”, which suggests that his mother wasn't Ingiborg but Aufrica.

Private User — NICE catch re Cawley’s reference!

So - can we make this fly?

1.Olav TitiBit marries Ingiborg (Orkneysaga) and Aufrica (Manx Chronicles)

2.Both women have sons called Godred.

Aufrica's son, Godred, becomes King of Man for 33 years, dying in 1187. (Manx Chr)

3. Both Godreds have sons called Ragnald

Aufrica's grandson, Ragnald, becomes King of Man & is killed in the battle Tynwald 1228 (Manx Chr)
Ingibjorg's grandson, Ragnald, becomes King of Man and the Isles. (King of the Hebrides) and "William "the Lion" King of Scotland sells Caithness to him after the battle of Wick in 1198. He loses Caithness to Harald [II] Maddadsson Jarl of Orkney in 1200. (Ork)

Does the timeline allow for both of these grandsons to have been King of Man?

Oh, PS Dr. Wilton McDonald II - Attorney & Barrister - I get what caught your attention - you think Aufrica is a reference to the possibility that she is black? Well > do some research on the language translations and the family line, and see if it's indeed possible.

And Cawley replied immediately:

Thank you very much for your email with this clarification

I must have misread the English translation which I used. I will correct my document and add this extract from the original. I did try to follow the hyperlink included in your email, but unsuccessfully: I just got an error message. Could you tell me which book the extract came from, please, then I can add the correct citation reference in my document?

I'm pleased that you find the website useful. All corrections and verified additions are always welcome.

Best wishes

Charles Cawley

I can't resist.

The name Aufrica or Affrica (there are other spellings) is a name found in Manx territory, and comes from the Gaelic for "very" and "freckled."

It was more common in earlier times.

More or less not surprisingly, since people keep thinking it means African. So it wouldn't make sense as a name unless you were from there.

Thank you. Freckles make sense.

Sharon Doubell if, in fact, there were two separate Ragnvald(s) that could be a possible explanation for two "daughters" being associated by Bartrum as wives of Welsh princes, who were born generations apart. Maybe the conflation with Bartrum, is not the daughters, but their fathers.

since Orkneyingasaga explicitly states that she (Ingiejörg) is the mother of Ragnhildur (if the name is indeed given there) why would this not in fact be so? manuscripts such as Flateyjarbók were copied from older sources and Orkneyingasaga is about as near as it gets to living memory.

Showing 61-74 of 74 posts

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