Bernard 'le Danois' de Pont-Audemer de Harcourt, vicomte de Rouen - Bernard the Dane

So I must read through this Dodo /Dudo ------

Surely this based on proper research --A Mediaeval Miscellany: Commentaries on Roderick W. Stuart's Royalty for Commoners," The American Genealogist 69 (April 1994)
[RFC] "Royalty for Commoners",

Roderick W. Stuart, 1992, 2nd edition. This book lists all of the known ancestors of John of Gaunt, which amounts to most of the Medieval royalty of Europe. Also see the following article: "A Mediaeval Miscellany: Commentaries on Roderick W. Stuart's Royalty for Commoners," The American Genealogist 69 (April 1994)

Bernard was a nobleman of the royal blood of Saxony, being forn in Denmark, was surnamed the Dane. He was the Chief Consellor and second in command to the famou Rollo, progenitor of the Kings of England. He lived in 876, and obtained the lorships of Harcourt, Caileville Beauficel, after the invasion of Normandy from Rollo for his services. He was minister to Rollo's son and successor, Richard, Duke of Normandy, as well as Regent of the Norman territories during his minority. He married ____de Sprote, of the royal family of Burgundy and had one son and heir named Torf "le Riche". ~A Genealogical History of the Family of Montgomery, pg. 142, Pedigree 113

At least here are some possible sources unlike so many others with Mahala , niks , nothing . At least possible individuals most likely existed even if not definitely related .

--- wicked lady Sharon !

Yes I know many of those !
watching Vikings again and shocking the disregard for time and facts .
someone else told me here on GENI : but I saw it in a movie and everyone knows that is true !
Yeah Right !

Ok - hear you.

Here is the link I base all my decisions on this link.

By J Gardner Bartlett
Member of the New England Historic Society

Source:

Bartlett, J.G. (Joseph G. and Boston Public Library (1914). Newberry genealogy : the ancestors and descendants of Thomas Newberry, of Dorchester, Mass., 1634. 920-1914. [online] Internet Archive. Boston, Mass. : Pub. by the author for J.S. Newberry. Available at: https://archive.org/details/newberrygenealog00bart/page/4/mode/2up?... [Accessed 7 May 2021].

https://archive.org/details/newberrygenealog00bart/page/n15/mode/2u...

http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pmcbride/rfc/l315.htm

Has gone way out on a limb no one knows the parentage of Bernard the Dane. He never married and the assumption he was 43. Bernard "The Dane" Prince of Denmark is well skeptical..

46. Harald HILDITONN King of Denmark and Jutland
[Ancestry Unknown]
d. 760, Killed in Battle
ch: *Princess of Denmark GEVA [Next Generation]
45. Princess of Denmark GEVA
d. ABT. 807
m. King of the Holstein Saxons WITEKIND
ch: *Princess of the Holstein Saxons HASALA [Next Generation]
44. Princess of the Holstein Saxons HASALA
b. Bernard's Grandmother
m. Duke of the Angrian Saxons BRUNO
b. Bernard's Grandfather
ch: *Bernard "The Dane" [Next Generation]
43. Bernard "The Dane" Prince of Denmark

There is no evidence that any of the connections are real, or are documented. Soon as someone mentions the Danish Royal Family and Prince and Princess of Danish Royal Families should be a red light and should be treated as fiction because everyone want to be related to Danish Royalty. IMO!

Not everyone ! My own family rather be descendants of serfs than exploiters they say ------

"Bernard the Dane, the most powerful of the feudal nobles of Normandy during the reign of Duke William I. (927-943) and Regent during the minority of Duke Richard I. (943-955)"

Bartlett does not deny that Bernard the Dane was a real person. Understandably, he has no "proof" Torf was his son, but offers no alternative theory or positive refutation of the long-standing historical claim. So he does not actually deny that he is his son, either.

"It has been suggested that [Torf] was a son of Bernard the Dane, the most powerful of the feudal nobles of Normandy during the reign of Duke William I. (927-943) and Regent during the minority of Duke Richard I. (943-955); but this claim has not been proved."

"TORF 1, SEIGNEUR DE TORVILLE*, a great Norman feudal baron, born about A.D. 920, is the earliest historical progenitor of the Newburgh or Newberry family from whom a certain and unbroken male line has been traced. Probably he was a grandson of one of the viking chiefs of Scandinavia who accompanied Rollo about 900 A.D. in the Norse invasion of northern France where they permanently settled and gave to the country its name “Normandy”. Torf possessed numerous lordships in Normandy, being Seigneur de Torville, Torcy, Torny, Torly, du Ponteautorf, etc"

(It has been "suggested" by Dudon de Saint-Quentin and King Louis XIV, among others.)

________________________________________

You said quote: "no one knows the parentage of Bernard the Dane"

We're not debating the parentage of Bernard the Dane.

"[Bernard the Dane] never married"

We don't know that he never married or had children, and on the contrary there is a very old poem describing his unnamed wife of noble birth. So besides Dudon and Louis XIV, people who knew of him better than any of us here, have asserted that he was married.

The pedigree that you now introduce, while interesting although at the same time confusing -- is irrelevant, because it doesn't reflect the Geni version.

"should be treated as fiction because everyone want to be related to Danish Royalty"

I don't believe that is true, and in any case it is no excuse for obliterating history.

Read that thought 2 different Bernards ----

Thx Alex --my Fench atrocious . Italian more my language so all very slow --will have a look .

ok -- German version has Torf as poosible son of Bernard the Dane

Bernhard der Däne wird als Vater von Torf und damit als Stammvater zweier großer normannischer Familien angesehen, des Hauses Beaumont und des Hauses Harcourt. Auch wenn kein Beweis für die Filiation zwischen Bernhard und Torf vorliegt, so wird sie doch in zahlreichen Genealogien erwähnt[4] und auch von den französischen Königen anerkannt, so zum Beispiel von Ludwig XIV. in seinem Patentbrief aus dem Jahr 1700 zur Errichtung des Herzogtums Harcourt: sa maison tire son origine de Bernard le Danois, un des seigneurs de Danemark, qui vinrent en Normandie avec Rollon, qui en fut le premier duc, en l'an 876, de qui Bernard le Danois eut la seigneurie d'Harcourt et plusieurs autres terres; il fut aussi fait gouverneur de Normandie et tuteur de Richard Ier, petit-fils du duc Rollon, et les descendants de ce Bernard ont été revêtus des premières charges et alliances fort illustres.[5]

similar in all the languages on Wikipedia -- yet no definitive proof for this affiliation / Relationship according to Wikipedia

Wilhelm von Jumièges, Histoire des Normands, Éd. Guizot, Brière, 1826, Buch IV (Französische Übersetzung der Gesta Normannorum ducum).

Relative to this according to Wikipedia
As mentioned above

Yes -seems all possible or maybe but no real proof on any of the sources for Torf as son of Bernard . Maybe -----

This good example what became accepted common knowledge or tradition without real proof .
Dangerous suppositions ---

We can't truthfully say that THEY didn't have proof of it. Only that WE don't have it now, more than 1,000 years later.

The fact that they are mentioned in official church and state records is evidence that there was proof then.