John Schaw of Alva and Knockhill - a son Sir James Shaw of Sauchie m. (1526.) Alison Hume.

Started by Sharon Doubell on Wednesday, May 26, 2021
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5/26/2021 at 12:47 AM

https://archive.org/details/anent1884/page/119/mode/1up gives John Schaw of Alva and Knockhill a son called Sir James Shaw of Sauchie m. (1526.) Alison Hume.

5/26/2021 at 12:55 AM
5/26/2021 at 1:52 AM

Isn’t this the same?

Alison Hume

5/26/2021 at 9:42 AM

Yes, definitely - so I'm having a feeling we're going to find a problem with her husband: Sir James Schaw of Sauchie because geni isn't throwing him up as a duplicate of Sir James Schaw of Sauchie

5/26/2021 at 9:45 AM

Confusing area. Feel free to change to what makes more sense. I agonized over when Greenock property came into the picture.

5/26/2021 at 9:47 AM

Also - we know Christian Bruce married a Sauchie of Sauchie but not sure which one. So that could be clouding the picture.

5/26/2021 at 10:24 AM

Erica Howton I've merged in quite successfully here. The lines matched better than I had expected and I was also able to pull in a number of other duplicates. In some cases I had to demaster one of our Curated profiles to merge them, and when mine had the Curator note that I'd added as a signpost I kept that one to guide me BUT I have no need to Curate any profiles here - so please just scan down the line and recurate all of the ones that have changed curation.

5/26/2021 at 12:48 PM

Sir James Schaw of Sauchie Was son from an unknown 1st wife.

5/27/2021 at 12:19 AM

"In the Register of the Great Seal there is the Legitimation of James and Patrick Schaw, two natural children of Alexander Schaw of Sauchy, 1S March, 1546. (Reg. Mag. Sig., Lib. 29, No. 392.)"https://archive.org/details/anent1884/page/106/mode/1up

Doesn't this suggest a mistress, not a wife?

5/27/2021 at 4:54 AM

Erica Howton RE: 'I agonized over when Greenock property came into the picture."
Perhaps the following is useful?

"We give the substance of a few relative charters in the Great Seal Register, following on the above, of which the first shows how the lands of Sauchie " fell into Greenock," hitherto a matter of speculation : Charter to Sir John Shaw of Greenock, knight baronet of the Barony of Sauchie, with castles, towers, &c, in the shire of Clackmannan ; and lands of Baquhairne, with houses, &c, in the same shire ; lands of Gairdinkeir in the Regality of Dunfermline and shire of Clackmannan (with the usual pertinents), all of which belonged heritably to the deceased [Sir] Alex- ander Shaw of Sauchie, and the deceased Sir James Shaw of Sauchie, and upon the 28 of March, 1682, they were adjudged from George Shaw, son, and law- fully charged to enter heir in special to the said de- ceased Sir Alexander Shaw, his father, and to the deceased Sir James Shaw, his grandfather, at the instance of the deceased Sir John Shaw of Greenock, knight baronet, father of Sir John Shaw, now ofGreenock, in satisfaction to the said Sir John, of debts amounting to ,£134,666 13s Scots, by Decreet of the Court of Session, and as having right as heir served and retoured to the said Sir John Shaw, his father, before the Bailies of Canongate, 4 January, 1694. The charter is dated 7 January, 1698. (Reg. Mag. Sig., Lib. 74, No. 159.) Charter in favour of Sir John Shaw of Greenock, knight-baronet, his heirs and assignees whosoever, of the lands and barony of Sauchie, &c. (as before), which belonged before to the said Sir John Shaw, and were resigned by him by procuratory, dated 1 9 Decembe r 1698, in favour and for a new infeftment to himself, his heirs and assignees whosoever, of the said lands and barony ; and, moreover, with a novo damus changing the holding to taxed ward from the former holding of blenche ferme, in which these lands were held before, by Gift of Recognition granted by Charles II. to Sir Henry Bruce of Clackmannan upon resignation by John Keirie of Sherdell, 166 — , disjoining also the lands and barony of Sauchie, lands of Bowqhuairne, and Gardinkeir, with the teinds and pertinents, from all lands, baronies, lordships, and earldoms, to which they were formerly annexed, and of new erecting the barony of Sauchie in one whole free barony, the Place of Sauchie to be the principal messuage, to hold of the Crown in fee and heritage, rendering yearly for thelands of Gardinkeir £^ and for the whole teinds one penny in name of blenche, and for the lands and old Barony of Sauchie, comprehending the lands of Bow- quhairn, the rights and services contained in the original infeftments. Dated 12 January, 1699. (Ibid.*, Lib. 75, No. 144.) Charter to Sir John Shaw of Greenock, his heirs, and assignees whosoever, heritably and irredeemably, of the lands of Boquharne, being parts of the barony of Sauchie ; and the lands of Gardenkeir, proceeding upon his own resignation. Dated 12 February, 1733. (Ibid., Lib. 94, No. 13.) Charter to Sir John Shaw of Greenock of the lands and barony of Sauchie ; and of the lands of Strick- leckie in the parish of Row and shire of Dumbarton. The lands of Sauchie, &c, on his own resignation. Strickleckie proceeds upon the resignation of Sir James Smollet of Bonhill, who got them on resignation by James, Duke of Montrose. Dated 26 July, 1733. (Ibid., Lib. 94, No. 121.) In the Edinburgh Evening Courant for Monday, August 18, 1783, the Lands and Estate of Myretoun and Balquharn, in Clackmannanshire, are advertised to be sold by Public Roup at Stirling, upon Friday, 26 September following, by the trustee for the creditors of James Guild of Myretoun, the proprietor. The adver- tisement states that the lands 4 'have been for manyyears in the natural possession of the aforesaid James Guild and his sons," and that "The articles of roup and progress of writs will be seen in the hands of James Wright, writer in Stirling ; and copies of the inventory and articles will be seen in the hands of Mr. Stephen Maxwell, merchant, Glasgow, and Robert Jamieson, writer to the Signet, Edinburgh."https://archive.org/details/anent1884/page/118/mode/1up

5/27/2021 at 11:33 AM

Yes, I had changed the relationship of N.N. Erskine to “partner” and added the missing Patrick Schaw profile.

I haven’t yet tried to understand “Lord Erskine” -

“Old Greenock: Embracing Sketches of Its Ecclesiastical, Educational, and ...” By George Williamson. Page 13. GoogleBooks

1 James Schaw was the only son of Sir Alexander, by his first marriage to the Lord Erskine's daughter, and thus John Schaw's brother consanguinean. On his father's death James succeeded to Sauchie as his father's heir at law. On the failure of male issue in the person of George Schaw, one of his descendants, the estate of Sauchie “fell into Greenock,” according to George Crawfurd, and thenceforward the Schaws were designed of Sauchie and Greenock, as formerly explained. The succession to Sauchie opened to the Greenock family during the tenure of the first Sir John Schaw-(Marshall's “Notes.")

https://books.google.com/books?id=1gbmAAAAMAAJ&lpg=PA326&ots=isloSo...

5/27/2021 at 11:47 AM

Hey, I’m wondering if Christian Bruce of Clackamman doesn’t belong way up tree to the grandfather James Schaw. Check this out:

https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/QDDWQCx8iio

1. Janet Shaw, born about 1460, married Sir Alexander Edmonstone of
Duntreath about 1480.

2. Sir James Shaw of Sauchie, born about 1430, married Christian?
Bruce of Clackmannan about 1455. ...

This Janet Schaw who married Sir Archibald Edmonstone, 3rd of Duntreath, Baronet

I think the daughters attributed to Christian Bruce match also:

Children - unconfirmed

  • Ellen Shaw+2
  • Janet Shaw+2 b. c 1455
  • Joan Shaw+3 b. c 1495
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