Maude (de Bassett) de Grey - Identity - Verdun or Bassett?

Started by Erica Howton on Sunday, April 25, 2021
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4/25/2021 at 12:09 PM

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/177676713/maud_de-grey

See Richardsons Magna Carta Ancestry (Wilton-4) for Maud's family history. She was great granddaughter of Henry de Bohun, a signatory of the Magna Carta.

Maud de Verdun and John de Grey married before 1276.

Before 2002 John's wife was generally thought to be Maud Bassett but Douglas Richardson found through his research into property transfer and dispute records, and marriage records of the time that Maud de Verdun, the daughter of Eleanor (de Bohun) Verdun was most certainly the wife of this John de Grey. Corrections were made to the Complete Peerage: Volume 6: Grey of Wilton, following the evidence submitted by Douglas Richardson in 2002 regarding facts he brought to light through his study of documentary evidence from over 700 years before. Isn't that an interesting genealogy story!

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Wife of John de Grey, 2nd Baron of Wilton & mother of Roger de Grey, 1st Baron Grey de Ruthyn & Maud de Grey

Private User Brought to attention.

Can we validate ?

Private User
4/25/2021 at 12:57 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Richardson

http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/cp/p_greyofwilton.shtml

"Douglas Richardson, in January 2002, provided evidence that John's wife in 1277 was called Maud, and suggested that she was the daughter of John de Verdun (d. 1274), by his second wife Eleanor, who was apparently a Bohun [citing Essex Feet of Fines, vol. 2, p. 13, a fine by which Eleanor settled lands in Debden, Essex, on John and Maud, in Trinity Term, 5 Edward I]. He also pointed out that Blore [History and Antiquities of the County of Rutland, pp. 164, 165 (1811)] identifies a wife of John de Grey as "Matilda, daughter of John de Verdun"."

Sounds reasonable enough to me, although I'm curious, on what basis did the Peerage have her as a Bassett in the first place.

Private User
4/25/2021 at 1:09 PM

The visitation of the County of Leicester also has her as Maud Bassett.

https://www.wikitree.com/photo/jpg/Grey-176

Private User
4/25/2021 at 1:18 PM

Cawley does not have a daughter named Maud for Verdun.

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3T-Z.htm#_T...

Cawley does have Maud Bassett as wife of John de Grey, but points out the same problem with the original peerage's lack of evidence.

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3D-K.htm#_T...

Private User
4/25/2021 at 2:19 PM

No Maud here.

http://www.thepeerage.com/p3683.htm#i36825

And an odd coincidence: Ralph Bassett "Jr." (brother of this "Maude Bassett") -- actually married Joane the daughter of Reginald de Grey (i.e. the sister of John de Grey, Maude's husband).

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A36794.0001.001/1:6.88?rgn=div2;s...

"This Reginald had a Daughter called Joane, who was the Wife of Raphe Lord Basset of
Drayton; and hadp in Frank-marriage, by his Gift, all his Lands in Olney, in Com. Buck. As
also a Brother, called John, who in 34 E. 1. was in the King's Service in Scotland.

"...[Reginald died in 1308], leaving John his Son and Heir forty years of age; whose Fealty the King, as a special Grace and Favour, appointed his Eschactor beyond Trent, soon after, to take, and to make Livery to him of his Inheritance.

"...But in [1323-4] he departed this Life, being seisede of the Mannor of Eston-Grey, in Com. Wiltes. Kemplyng, in Com. Glouc. of the Castle of Ruthyn, and Cantred of Deffren-oloyt, in North-Wales; as also of those Lands in Englefeld, which were formerly belonging to Wenthlian
de Lacy: Likewise of the Mannor of Wilton upon Waye, in Com. Heref. Towsland, in Com. Hunt. Depeden, and Punlot, in Com. Essex. and Schirland, in Com. Derb. leaving Henry his Son
and Heir forty years of age.

"Moreover, it appeareth, that he held for term of Life, with Remainder to Roger his younger Son (by a second Wife, as some affirm) and to the Heirs of his Body..."

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A36794.0001.001/1:6.290?rgn=div2;...

4/25/2021 at 3:45 PM

Can we find the geni profiles for John de Verdun & Eleanor de Bohun?

4/25/2021 at 3:47 PM

The evidence suggests further that Maud was the mother of John's sons Henry and Roger (who later disputed the manor of Weldebernes, in Debden [citing Index of Placita de Banco, 1327-1328, part 1, p. 143 (P.R.O. Lists and Indexes, no 32)]) and his daughter Joan (whose daughter Margaret was found to be related in the fourth degree to her husband John de Bohun, Earl of Hereford and Essex (d. 1335/6) [citing Calendar of Papal Letters, vol. 2, p. 349]).

4/25/2021 at 3:51 PM

Adding note from https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Verdun-37

Maud was the daughter of John de Verdun and Eleanor de Bohun. She married before 1275/6 to John de Grey, 2nd Lord Grey of WIlton and they had children:[1]

1. Henry, 3rd Lord of Grey of Wilton;
2. Roger, 1st Lord of Grey of Ruthin, married Elizabeth de Hastings;
3. Iseult, married 1st, before 1308, to Urian de Saint Pierre; married 2nd to Sir William Inge;
4. Maud, married John de Moels, 1st Lord Moels.

Private User
4/25/2021 at 4:19 PM

Here they are, Erica.

Eleanor de Bohun, heiress of Debden

4/25/2021 at 6:51 PM

Updated Maud “Matilda” de Verdun and made a new profile for Maud Bassett daughter of Ralph IV Basset, Lord of Drayton & Ralph IV Basset, Lord of Drayton.

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What do we do about Lady Anne de Ferrers I’m pretty sure she was also not the wife of John de Grey, 2nd Baron of Wilton .

4/25/2021 at 6:52 PM

Note - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Grey,_2nd_Baron_Grey_de_Wilton shows

Family[edit]
Lord de Grey married Anne, daughter of Sir William Ferrers of Groby, Leicestershire although this has never been proven, and leaving:
Henry de Grey, 3rd Baron Grey of Wilton (28 Oct 1282–10 Dec 1342)
Secondly, he married Maud, daughter of Ralph Basset (died 1265) and Margaret, daughter of Roger Someri, feudal Lord of Dudley. They had:
Roger de Grey, 1st Baron Grey of Ruthin[i]
Lord de Grey died 28 October 1323.

Notes

later doctrine doubts the veracity of the Grey peerages on the basis that they predate an official start date for Parliaments given as 1397, hence creations by writ of summons. Modern doctrine also dispenses with de Ruthin and de Wilton, preferring "of", although they undoubtedly spoke French at least until the period of Hundred Years Wars.

4/25/2021 at 9:35 PM

Disconnected Lady Anne de Ferrers as wife of John Grey.

Additional reference for the family

https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00127832&tr...

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