Graaf Guy de Dampierre, Count of Flanders & Marquis of Namur - Lining them up with the facts.

I can't find which profile above I manage or Curate - if you tell me, I'm happy to come and help.

I thought if I went down the entire list I would find it ez-pz, but that was not to be the case at all. And I'm surprised, because I vaguely remember seeing your name somewhere in that assemblage. I'm sorry I coudln't help you with that.

I propose disconnecting all of our Marguerite's Armstrong children.

Then merging the three duplicate Marguerites who were Guy Dampierre's daughter by his second wife Isabelle de Luxembourg.

Then merging the two Armstrong duplicates (the Scottish prince who died at age 20, likely childless but certainly married to our Marguerite). There is some theory that he was the first Laird of Mangerton castle, probably true (imho, as I have yet to find much info on Mangerton), thus the variation in titles.

Before merging the duplicate Prince Alexanders (aka Armstrong), we need to disconnect his duplicate Alexander husband-of-Marguerite from his erroneous (and undocumented, I might add) "Armstrong" ancestry.

I'm not sure that covers all the cleanup, but I think it would be a good start anyway.

I guess I should also point out that the 20 year old prince Alexander should also have all of his pretend children disconnected from his duplicate profiles, probably prior to merging.

Sharon, maybe you are only following some of these profiles (rather than managing or curating them).

I would advise that the erroneous "Rebecca of Flanders" (wife of our Prince Alexander of Scotland aka his duplicate, Alexander Armstrong First Laird of Mangerton) should be renamed and merged with our Marguerite of Flanders.

LIDDISDAIL.

The Laird of Mangerton.

The Lairds Iok.

Chrystie of the Syde.
............................................

Debaitable Land. Sandeis Barnes Armestrangs.

Will of Kinmonth.

Krystie Armestrang.

Iohn Skynbanke.
............................................

EWISDAIL.

Armestrangs of the Gyngils.

Ekké of the Gingils.

Andrew of the Gyngils.

Thome of Glendoning.
............................................

ESKDAIL - Iohnes.

Iohn Armstrang of Hoilhons.

Iohn Armstrang of Thorne∣quhat.

Wil Armestrāg of Ternsnihill
............................................

"Certeine matters concerning the realme of Scotland, composed together The genealogie of all the kings of Scotland, their liues, the yeeres of their coronation, the time of their reigne, the yeere of their death, and maner thereof, with the place of their buriall. The whole nobilitie of Scotland, their surnames, their titles of honour, the names of their chiefe houses, and their mariages. The arch-bishopricks, bishopricks, abbacies, priories, & nunries of Scotland. The knights of Scotland. The forme of the oth of a duke, earle, lord of Parliament, and of a knight. The names of barons, lairds, and chiefe gentlemen in euerie sherifdome. The names of the principall clannes, and surnames of the borderers not landed. The stewartries and baileries of Scotland. The order of the calling of the Table of the Session. The description of whole Scotland, with all the iles, and names thereof. The most rare and woonderfull things in Scotland. As they were anno Domini, 1597." by Monipennie, John.

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A07623.0001.001/1:3?rgn=div1;view...

From the list of kings of Scotland:

92 Malcolme the fourth, surnamed the Maiden (because he would neuer marrie) succeeded to his grand-father Dauid 1. in the yeere of the world, 5123. In the yeere of Christ, 1153. A good and meeke Prince. He builded the Abbay of Cowper in Angus, and died at Iedburgh, and was buried at Dumfermeline in the twelfth yeere of his raigne.

93 William, surnamed the Lion, succeeded to his brother Malcolme the fourth, in the yere of the world 5135. In the yere of Christ, 1165. A good and a valiant King. He maried Emergarda, daughter to the Earle of Beaumount. He builded the Abbacy of Aberbrothok, and she builded the Abbacie of Balmerinoch. He died at Striuiling in the 49. yeere of his raigne, and was buried at Aberbrothok.

94 Alexander the second succeeded to his father William, in the yeere of the world, 5184. In the yeere of Christ, 1214. A good Prince. He maried Ieane, daughter to Iohn, King of England, by whom he had no succession. After her death he maried Marie, daughter to Ingelrame, Earle of Coucey in Fraunce, by whom he had Alexander the third. He died at Kernery in the West Iles, and was buried at Melrosse in the 35. yeere of his raigne.

95 Alexander the third succeeded to his father, in the yere of the world, 5219. In the yeere of Christ, 1249. A good Prince. He maried first Margaret, daughter to Henry the third, King of England, by whom he had...

...*****Alexander the Prince, who maried the Earle of Flāders daughter,*****

...Dauid

...& Margaret, who maried Hangonanus, or as some call him, Fricus, son to Magnus 4. King of Norway, who bare to him a daughter, named Margaret, commonly called, The Maiden of Norway, in whom King William his whole posteritie failed, & the crowne of Scotland returned to the posteritie of Dauid Earle of Huntingdon, K. Malcome 4. and King William his brother.

After his sonnes [Alexander the Prince and David] death (for they died before himself without succession) in hope of posteritie, he maried Ioleta, daughter to the Earle of Dreux in Fraunce, by whō he had no succession. He builded the crosse Church of Peibles. He died of a fall from his horse, vpon the sands, betwixt Easter and Wester Kinghorne, in the 37. yeere of his raigne, and was buried at Dumfermeline.

After the death of Alexander the third, which was in the yeere of the world, 5255. In the yeere of Christ, 1285. there were sixe Regents appointed to rule Scotland: for the South side of Forth, were appointed Robert, the Archbishop of Glasgowe, Iohn Cummin, & Iohn the great Steward of Scotland. For the North side of Forth, Makduffe, Eare of Fife, Iohn Cummin Earle of Buchan, and William Fraser, Archbishop of Saint Andrewes, who ruled the land about the space of seuen yeres, vntill the controuersie was decided betwixt Iohn Ballioll and Robert Bruyse, Grandfather to Robert Bruyse the King of Scotland, who did come of the two eldest daughters of Dauid Earle of Huntingdon: for Henry Hastings, who maried the yongest daughter, put not in his sute or claime with the rest, and therefore there is little spoken of him.

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A07623.0001.001/1:2?rgn=div1;view...

Noting that there is no mention of any progeny from Alexander the Prince (and only daughters from his brother, David).

Upfront, I doubt that Alexander the Prince was a Stewart, because his father was not and there is no mention of them being Stewarts. In fact the text explicitly reads, "100 Robert the second, surnamed Bleare-eie, the first of the Stewards, sonne to Walter Steward, and Margery Bruyse..."

So if he was the first Steward king, then all who reigned before him could not have been Stewarts. So his name also needs to be corrected.

From Encyclopedia Brittanica:

"House of Stuart, also spelled Stewart or Steuart, royal house of Scotland from 1371 and of England from 1603. It was interrupted in 1649 by the establishment of the Commonwealth but was restored in 1660. It ended in 1714, when the British crown passed to the house of Hanover.

"The first spelling of the family name was undoubtedly Stewart, the old Scots version, but during the 16th century French influence led to the adoption of the spellings Stuart and Steuart, because of the absence of the letter “w” in the French alphabet.

"The family can be traced back to 11th-century Brittany, where for at least four generations they were stewards to the counts of Dol. In the early 12th century they appeared in England, and Walter, third son of the 4th steward of Dol, entered the service of David I, king of Scots, and was later appointed his steward, an office that was confirmed to his family by King Malcolm IV in 1157. Walter (died 1326), the 6th steward, married Marjory, daughter of King Robert I (the Bruce), in 1315, and in 1371 their son Robert, as King Robert II, became the first Stewart king of Scotland..."

So we have confirmation that the father of Alexander the Prince was not a Stewart. Therefore it stands to reason that neither were his sons.

I'm prepared to clean up this branch now.

I have an hour this morning to try and help you, Debra - but it's a big area. Let me see where I can make a start, and perhaps we can call in other Curators to help you with this as well.

I created a temporary template project for you to use, Debra: https://www.geni.com/projects/Debra-s-temporary-GUY-de-Dampierre-te...

We can invite other Curators to come and help you on it, and hopefully that will mean you get the help you need with noone working at cross purposes,

Erica Howton

Private User

Thanks, Private User for finding this and working wanting to get it right. He's my 23rd great uncle by blood and by marriage if everything is correct. I wish I knew enough of this line to help, but I do learn so much from ya'll.

Günther Kipp

I see you've merged the duplicate Marguerites. I've curated and RLed to prevent the half sisters being merged into each other:

cf Marguerite of Dampierre and Margaretha van Vlaanderen

RE > About the second Marguerite: She had 5-6 children with her second husband (as his second wife). Two are missing Geni profiles (Guido and "Philipp", but the latter is probably a misspelling of their daughter Philppa, so it is very questionable).

I created a Guido. I didn't create the dunbious Phillip, but acknowledged him in the CNote.

RE> Prince Alexander of Scotland Marguerite's first husband was the son of King Alexander of Scotland, and on Geni his ancestry is all wrong. He is in fact a duplicate of Prince Alexander of Scotland who has been erroneously identified as the partner of a fictional maid of Flanders, Margaretha de Dampierre van Vlaanderen
But the point is, besides marrying Marguerite of Flanders (not "Rebecca") -- he was barely 20 years old when he died. And there is no evidence to my knowledge of him ever having ANY children with her or anyone else. I would feel a lot better if all of this got repaired as soon as possible. And since many of the profiles involved are not MPs, I might be able to do most of the work myself.

You seem to have sorted it. I RLed after you and added a Curator Note. Hopefully that fixes your changes.

*...fixes your changes in place.

Thank you, Sharon and Susan. I really appreciate all the support, especially since I'm not very experienced with manipulating these profiles so it's definitely not easy for me. I can only hope to have learned from past mistakes. (PS, I see that Sharon is now the curator for Margaretha van Vlaanderen -- unless we both simply missed that detail earlier.)

Susan, Prince Alexander went from being I believe it was one of my grandfathers in my direct ancestry through my Armstrong line, to currently my first cousin 23X removed. I always had a suspicion something was wrong with that lineage, besides the fact that many of the connections seemed constructed without reliable sources. In fact, what bothered me was that at one time at least, his wife Margaret shared the same surname: Armstrong. Which I thought a little strange, even for this particular demographic.

In the process of cleaning it up, I disconnected a number of undocumented "Armstrongs", and some that blatantly don't match Alexander. I did what I could to preserve every profile that matched correctly. It wasn't as difficult a task as I had feared.

Also in the process I learned that there is some confusion between Prince Alexander and Aonghas Mor mac Domhnaill, Lord of Islay . These two are absolutely separate individuals, and their profiles look very good as of right now.

Here is a list of all the profiles that I was unable to work into the main lineage:

Angus Mor Lord of the Isles

(I think because of relationship locks I was unable to merge this one with the MP linked above).

Richard Armstrong

Alexander Armstrong II 1st Laird of Mangerton Castle

(Just a note: These Lairds of Mangerton are not necessarily related father-to-son. Prince Alexander as a Border Scot is considered by many to have been the first Laird of Mangerton and an Armstrong; but obviously he died without progeny. Also this profile's dates do not match up to Prince Alexander, way too early.)

William Armstrong

(This one just says his father was "Alexander Armstrong", nothing more specific. Anyway, his birth date is at least 20 years too early to have been a child of Prince Alexander and Marguerite of Flanders.)

John Alexander

(Originally added on March 13, 2011 as the father of Angus Og Alexander, Lord of the Isles, linked above. Clearly in error, as the parentage of the latter is well documented.)

Alexander Armstrong, 2nd Laird of Mangerton

(Dates don't match up with our Prince Alexander.)

Archibald Armstrong

(Again, the birth date is problematic.)

RE> (PS, I see that Sharon is now the curator for Margaretha, van Vlaanderen -- unless we both simply missed that detail earlier.)

I reCurated two profiles - one of George Horm's as he is inactive, and one of Lucia Pilla's who has sadly died recently. I don't recall whose was whose.

The original profile I was involved with turned out to be Reinoud I, Graaf van Gelre

Thank you so much, Sharon.

Pleasure. Thank you for your sterling work here.

Wow! Private User and Sharon Doubell, you are amazing! Believe it or not, Guy is still my 23rd great uncle by marriage to Isabella and by blood, though Debra, I think as you that at one time I had a direct connection. I typically do not "follow" someone unless I do or there is a special reason.

Several things about the work that you two have done strike me as important and I think others such as I should take note of the process:

1. Debra launched a discussion and described what she saw as a problem. She started noting all the information good and bad that she could find.

2. Sharon came in to provide assistance and support while Debra sourced the profiles and made the changes where she could.

3. Sharon MPing and cleaning up also as it was needed for locks.

4. Debra stated what she did and what she was not able to do with some profiles that did not fit.

What amazes me is that with 24 profiles tagged in this discussion no other managers or followers commented. I know that some do not check emails, may be inactive, may not know what to do (which is always my case in the Medieval World). But I really appreciate what you both did, whether it left me with Guy as a relative or not is not the question. It is getting the tree correct. Bravo!

On another note - Debra, I do want to talk with you at length someday about Native American lines as I am hitting almost exact same brick walls. For some reason, I can't message you.

Thank you Susanne. Appreciation always makes it worth it.

Debra had been so careful to provide all the primary sourced details in the Discussion, that it was easy to follow her and lock down her changes as she made them.

: - )

[[600000
Sharon and Debra know why I’m smiling...

I’m trying to play catch up. I was reading, but not adding a side by side view of the Geni tree. So I especially appreciate the detail, transparency, and sorting through. Thank you.