NN - NN alias "Ternois di Friuli"

https://www.geni.com/discussions/228089?msg=1460466 Is there a reason you are starting a new Discussion?

>>> It is not too late, it is still possible to do the UNDO, even cut she from the tree, maybe even report it fictional, with the TAGs to the profiles to which some believe it is connected ... This explain to all 81 present and future followers & who knows how many others DIY. (plus all the TAGs in profile discussions would return to the right place) <<<

https://www.geni.com/discussions/228089?msg=1460466 Is there a reason you are starting a new Discussion?

Mike Stangel

Sharon, I think Livio's message looks reasonable (at least on the face of it, I don't know what's been discussed before) and I think your question is reasonable so I think you should both carry on like reasonable people. :-)

I am confused - Hasn't all of this been debated in https://www.geni.com/discussions/228089 over the past 6 days?

and, with nastiness, here: https://www.geni.com/discussions/228130?msg=1460637

then when we do the reasonable UNDO on " NN " and redo reappear the ten-year link named "Ternois di Friuli " ?.

*Certainly disconnected from the tree, certainly explaining that the documentation is scarce and certainly maybe in debate /discussion.. and / or all kinds of discrediting warnings that exist.

-not just for those 81 present: If one day someone else try reinserted it* ..Here on GENI we already know what it is.
*(a matter of time it will surely happen again, it always happens!)

-If better documentation emerges tomorrow, it could be linked again.

(Isn't that reasonable? when do we do it? :)
PS.If don't have the time, I know someone very good at these things
[..always do not fear to upset you, (I had not yet considered this:)]

You know very well that "Ternois di Friuli " is not disconnected from the tree. Here https://www.geni.com/discussions/228130?msg=1460757 I said: "On the question of the profile attached as a daughter of of Unruoch with a first name that you'd changed to the unlikely name of a territory of which he was count - with no primary sources to substantiate: See https://www.geni.com/discussions/228089?msg=1460481 - I reverted to the NN that it had been correctly before.
If you find primary sources to back up the unlikely case of him naming his daughter after his land - please post them. Discredited wikipedia posts are not that, though."

I don't think it can be again, again & again misunderstood to signal a "fictional" very old & frequented profile instead of making it disappear and even reuse it for a completely different node (itanglish or not :) We call an interpreter?

again and again:

You know the profile wasn't reused. You know I did not move it. You know I did not make it disappear. You know I did not make it fictional.

You know I removed the fictional name (that was the name of her father's lands) and returned it to NN. (see https://www.geni.com/discussions/228130?msg=1460757 and https://www.geni.com/discussions/228089?msg=1460481 and https://www.geni.com/discussions/228307?msg=1462120)

You know I disconnected it from a husband for which there were no sources.

I understand that my itanglish may have a bit of a "spaghettieater" accent,
so I also trying to read up about *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_English

but I see that the misunderstandings get worse: PLZ Erica Howton from your multi-ethical neighborhood, is there a better way to say what i said!? is that so misunderstood!? :O PLZ

You know the profile fits in here at e:
You know it wasn't put there by me.
You know the sources are
*http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANKISH%20NOBILITY.htm#_Toc371156058

[Unruoch, marquis & duke of Friuli UNRUOCH], son of --- (-13 Nov before 853). m [Engeltrude of Paris ENGELTRUDE]

>a) [Berenger, duke of Septimania BERENGER] ([790/95]-killed in battle [836/37]).

>b) [St Eberhard, margrave & duke of Friuli EBERHARD] ([805/10]-in Italy 16 Dec 866, bur Cysoing, Abbey of St Calixtus).

>c) [Adalhard, abbé de Saint-Bertin ADALHARD] (-Saint-Amand 3 Feb 864, bur Saint-Amand).

>d) [NN daughter] .

>e) [NN '''---'''] . '''The exact relationship of Adalric to Graf Eberhard is not known, but assuming that nepos in the latter’s testament should be translated by nephew, one of Adalric’s parents was Eberhard’s sibling. m ---.] One child:

>>i) [Adalric (Udalrich) ADALRIC] [Udalrich] (-after 866).

You know all this because I said it here:https://www.geni.com/discussions/228089?msg=1460466
*http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANKISH%20NOBILITY.htm#_Toc371156058

[Unruoch II, marquis & duke of Friuli UNRUOCH], son of --- (-13 Nov before 853). A list of Saxons in Westphalia dated Jan/Feb 802 records that "Adalgaudum filium Suigaut habuit Unrocus comis", presumably indicating that the last named had responsibility for the allegiance sworn to the emperor by the first-named[604]. "Comiti Hadalhardus, Fulradus, Unrocus seu Hrocculfus" are named as imperial missi in a document of Emperor Charlemagne dated 806[605]. Einhard names "Unruochus comes" as one of the 15 witnesses of the testament of Emperor Charlemagne dated 811[606]. Einhard's Annales record "Unrochus comes" as one of the signatories of peace with the Vikings in 811[607]. Comte en Ternois 839. "Unrici comitis" signed a charter dated 20 Jun 839 issued by "Folquinus…Morinorum episcopus"[608]. "Undrici comitis" signed a charter dated 29 Jun 839 issued by "Hugo abbas…Sithiensis"[609]. Monk at St Bertin[610]. m [Engeltrude of Paris ENGELTRUDE], daughter of ---. The primary source which names Engeltrude as wife of Unruoch and mother of his children has not yet been identified. Unruoch & his wife had three children:

a) [Berenger, duke of Septimania BERENGER] ([790/95]-killed in battle [836/37]). The original manuscript of Thegan’s Vita Hludowici Imperatoris names "Beringarii, Hunroci quondam comitis filii"[611]. Thegan's Vita Hludowici Imperatoris names "…Berengarium sapientem, propinquum suum" as missus of Emperor Louis[612]. The precise family relationship between Berengar and Emperor Louis I to which this refers is not known. It is possible that it refers to the marriage, which took place shortly before the events recorded in this passage in the Vita, between Berengar's younger brother Eberhard and the emperor's daughter Gisela, although this is remote. No indication has yet been found of any possible Carolingian ancestry of either of Berengar's parents. Berengar's birth date is estimated on the assumption that he was adult when he was recorded as count in 819, but also bearing in mind the estimated birth date range of his younger brother Eberhard. Comte de Toulouse 819. Einhard's Annales name "Berengario Tolosæ et Warino Arverni comite" as fighting "Lupus Centulli Wasco" in 819[613]. The Vita Hludowici Imperatoris records the rebellion of "Wasco, Lupus Centulli cognomento" and fighting "Werinum Arvernorum comitem et Berengarium Tholosanum"[614]. Duke of Septimania. "Ragnarius episcopus et Berengarius comes" are named as imperial missi in "sex…comitatus…Remis, Catolonis, Suessionis, Silvanectis, Belvacus et Laudunum…[et] quatuor…episcopatus …Noviomacensem, Ambianensem, Tervanensem et Camaracensem" in documents of Emperor Louis dated May 825 and 827[615]. Emperor Louis I granted "comitatum Brivatensem" to "fideli nostro Berengario…comiti" by charter dated 825[616]. “Berengarius...chomis” donated property to “abbate...Teuderedo” at the monastery of Alaon, as his predecessor “Crischonius abba” had received, by charter dated to [816/33][617]. Thegan's Vita Hludowici Imperatoris names "Badaradum episcopum Saxonicum et Gerhardum…ducem et Berengarium sapientem, propinquum suum" as missi of Emperor Louis[618], the passage being undated but included among text which records events in the first half of the 830s. Thegan's Vita Hludowici Imperatoris records the death in 836 of "Berengarius dux fidelius et sapiens" whom Emperor Louis and his sons "luxit multo tempore"[619].

b) [St. Eberhard, margrave & duke of Friuli EBERHARD] ([805/10]-in Italy 16 Dec 866, bur Cysoing, Abbey of St Calixtus). His origin is stated in the poem by Sedulius addressed to "Everhardum comitem…Hunroci proles"[620]. His birth date is estimated on the basis of his marriage in [836]. He stopped the invasion of the Slavs and received the March of Friulia from Emperor Lothaire I, becoming EBERHARD Duke of the March of Friulia.

- MARCHESI of FRIULIA.

c) [Adalhard, abbé de Saint-Bertin ADALHARD] (-Saint-Amand 3 Feb 864, bur Saint-Amand). The cartulaire of Saint-Bertin records that "Adalardus" succeeded Hugues as Abbé de Saint-Bertin, adding that he had been offered to the monastery "a patre Hunroco"[621]. Abbé de Saint Bertin et de Saint Amand. The cartulaire of Saint-Bertin records the death "III Non Feb apud sancti Amandi monasterium" in 864 of "Adalardo" only three years after he was installed as abbot, and his burial "in eodem monasterio", adding that "hujus…pater Hunrocus" had introduced him to Saint-Bertin as a monk[622].

d) [daughter . The wife of Suppo III is shown in Europäische Stammtafeln[623] as the daughter of Unruoch but the primary source on which this is based has not yet been identified. It is probably speculative, based on the name of his son who was called "consanguineus" of Berengar I King of Italy in the latter’s charter dated 12 May 890. m SUPPO III Marchese di Spoleto, son of --- (-[878/79]).]

e) [--- . The exact relationship of Adalric to Graf Eberhard is not known, but assuming that nepos in the latter’s testament should be translated by nephew, one of Adalric’s parents was Eberhard’s sibling. m ---.] One child:

i) ADALRIC [Udalrich] (-after 866). The Historia Ecclesiæ Cisoniensis records the testament of “Evrardus comes cum coniuge mea Gisla”, dated “Hludovico Augusto anno regni eius XXIV” and witnessed by “Adalroch nepos noster”[624]. This may be the same person as “Odelrici Comitis” who signed the charter dated “Kal Jul anno XXXV regnante Carolo Rege” under which “Gisla” donated property to Cysoing abbey for her burial next to “coniugis mei dulcis memoriæ Evrardi”, recorded in the Historia Ecclesiæ Cisoniensis[625].

Including the fact that her father [Unruoch II, marquis & duke of Friuli UNRUOCH was also Comte en Ternois & so this wasn't going to be his daughter's first name:
https://www.geni.com/discussions/228089?msg=1460481 "see above "Comte en Ternois" - casts doubt on it being his daughter's first name."

So what is the problem that you are not managing to translate over 6 days and umpteen new Discussions? Why not write it in Italian, and I will use Google translate - because right now all I see are insults and allusions to me not understanding you, but no attempt to reply to the actual issue - which is that you are angry that I removed a name from a profile and you can't bully me into putting it back without good reasons.

Unruoch marquis & duke of Friuli and Comte en Ternois
WOULD NOT HAVE NAMED HIS DAUGHTER Ternois.

Furthermore there is no primary evidence anywhere that Gebhard d'Orléans, count of the Lahngau had a second wife, let alone one called called "Ternois di Friuli".

Instead of starting a new Discussion about the same thing every time you don't get the result you want, why not find the primary evidence that proves what you want it to?

On 22/9/2015 Justin Swanstrom had the name as NN di Friuli

6 years later on 17/3/2021 at 18:52 YOU change it to .... im Nordgau

The following day on 18/3/2021 at 19:07 YOU have it as Ternois de Friuli

Somewhere in between then and a week ago, you tag a profile I Curate or manage and I see that you're trying to work in the area but you are experiencing blocks. I decide to try and help because it's been a long time since you've insulted me last, and I feel like you seem genuinely stuck.

I work from the sources on Unruoch de Friuli down and come across a Ternois de Friuli that appears incorrect. I have no idea she's recently been changed by you. Helpfully, I start a Discussion -and then the insults start:

*You start numbers of discussions publicly insulting my use of a Medlands family line template to make sure I'm sourcing correctly.
*You go into the profiles and add comments like ML SPAM next to anything I've written.
*When I don't respond, you start attacking other curators in the area (Private User)
*Unbeknown to me, in other places other Curators are asking you to stop insulting users.
*Ulf jumps in and insults further
*Mike - I'm told - asks you to behave better.
*You come right back here and pick up where you'd left off with a new Discussion on the same issue aimed at me.

And here we are

large area well worked / untangled by at least 3 MP duplicate line, under the supervision and collaborative help of Erica Howton.

We hope she will arrive soon to act as an interpreter..
(I will try to make myself available also on Sunday if needed .. today is Saturday afternoon:)
>> I'm stopped at the first message of the discussion .. subject of discussion .. considered reasonable, PLZ we stay focused on one thing at a time. <<

OMG 17/3/2021 the action I asked (C) Erica to cancel, just to preserve the profile we are talking about .. of which I have already explained to you last Sunday.
PLZ we all STOP message, we need a interpreter.

You're being disingenuous.

The point is that the profile has only recently been named "Ternois di Friuli" by YOU. It has not been anything other than the NN I have reverted it to for 13 years.

"NN di Friuli" wife of Gebhard d'Orléans, count of the Lahngau
(daugher of Unruoch, marquis & duke of Friuli )
is called in wikipedia "Ternois di Friuli"
..but it's all well explained in the first message PLZ calm down and wait for the interpreter.

You're still being disingenuous.

As I have said repeatedly, your Wikipedia references were unsourced stubs. They did not prove that Unruoch had named his child after his land (as I have said more than ten times here and elsewhere and you pretend is difficult to translate). Neither did they prove this child was married to Gebhard. No primary sources anywhere give him a second wife.

I have explained this repeatedly and well, both above and elsewhere.

I am quite calm. Unlike the frenzy you went into when adding 'ML Spam' in all my texts.

I'm sure Google Translate can stand in for the mystery interpreter you keep expecting to appear.

Sei ancora disonesto.

Come ho detto più volte, i tuoi riferimenti a Wikipedia erano matrici non fornite. Non hanno dimostrato che Unruoch avesse chiamato suo figlio con il nome della sua terra (come ho detto più di dieci volte qui e altrove e fai finta che sia difficile da tradurre). Né hanno dimostrato che questo bambino fosse sposato con Gebhard. Nessuna fonte primaria da nessuna parte gli dà una seconda moglie.

L'ho spiegato più volte e bene, sia sopra che altrove.

Sono abbastanza calmo. A differenza della frenesia in cui sei entrato nell'aggiunta di "ML Spam" in tutti i miei testi.

Sono sicuro che Google Translate possa sostituire l'interprete del mistero che continui a aspettarti che appaia.

For heaven's sake don't write in automatic Italian anymore..
"matrices not supplied"? masculine and feminine terms .. trust me, Italian is not for robots .. it's also the anniversary of Dante! :D
so if you have proved it, you have to mark she fictional cutting she out of the tree by writing in it what we found. [..but it is written in the first message]

PS. if you use the automatic translator, many things are explained, the word you use at the beginning of the sentence in Italian is very offensive.. [especially for someone like me who has signed a genealogical integrity oath, (& you?)]
I hope you will soon have the opportunity to apologize by doing the right thing.

Remain calm. Do not become distracted.

Rimanere calmo. Non distrarti.