Blanche (Mowbray) Wiltshire - Children? Please help.

"...by March 1349 Mowbray was negotiating for another double marriage of his children, to John and Elizabeth, the children of John de Segrave by Margaret of Brotherton. The charter by which Segrave was bound to settle £200 of land on Elizabeth for her life (presumably instead of a lump sum portion) was witnessed by Henry of Lancaster, overseeing the affairs of his nephew and niece. [Below, BCM/D/1/1/13-14 [GC 3231-2]. Lancaster had requested the papal dispensations for the marriages to take place.]

"Young John de Segrave died without issue before his father's death on 1 April 1353.

"Blanche de Mowbray (d. 1409) went on to marry Sir Robert Bertram of Bothal (Northumb.) (d. 1363), Thomas de Poynings (d.s.p. 1375), Sir John de Worth (d. 1391) and finally Sir John Wiltshire (fl. 1405): GEC x. 662."

I don't know about Robert Bertram, but I would conclude she never had children with John Segrave. I will look further into Robert Bertram's history.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/ad681e3e-b14f-4...

"Here lies Robert Ogle, son of Eleanore Bertram, Robert's daughter Bertram ... a soldier, who died on the eve of all the holy and observed, In the year of the Lord, 1404"

(Hic jacet Robertus Ogle, filius Eleanore Bertram, filiæ Roberti Bertram, militis , qui obiit in vigilia omnium fanctorum , Anno Domini, 1404.)

So it is established that his mother was "Helen"/Eleanore Bertram, daughter of Robert Bertram, Kt.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Natural_History_and_Antiqu... (p.97)

Still looking for proof of her mother.

p.330 "...and of another Sir Robert in the reign of K. Edward III , who by permission from that king built the castle of Bothall. His daughter and heir, Eleanor, married Sir Robert Ogle, of Ogle, Knt. whose posterity enjoyed this barony through a long succession.

"In the contests between the two houses of York and Lancaster, Sir Robert Ogle, Knt. being an assiduous and zealous friend to the former, was created Lord Ogle; and the fourth in descent from him, Robert Lord Ogle, married Ann the daughter of Sir Thomas Lumley, Knt. by Elizabeth Plantagenet, daughter of K. Edward IV, by the Lady Elizabeth Lucy."

pp.551-2 "...of Sir Robert de Ogle, in the reign of K. Edward III. He married Eleanor the daughter and sole heir of Sir Robert Bertram, baron of Bothall; by which marriage those two antient houses were united.

"He was high bailiff of the dominion of Tynedale, as attested by his patent, bearing date 11 K. Edward III. He built the castle of Ogle by leave from the crown, and had also a grant of free warren. He was with the king at Stanhope park, 1327. He was also at the battle of Nevill's cross, 1346. His brother, Sir Alexander Ogle, Knt. was slain, 29th K. Edward III, 1355, in defence of the castle of Berwick upon Tweed, of which he was captain.

"His Lady Eleanor, Baroness of Bothall, survived him, and married John de Hatfield. His grandson, Sir Robert de Ogle, by his son Sir Robert, succeeded him, and had the barony of Heppell, as was found by an inquisition, 47 K. Edward II. The two baronies and castles were possessed by his posterity for many generations..."

Here it is: Helen (Elena, Eleanor) Bertram was the daughter of Robert Bertram by his FIRST wife, Margaret daughter of William Felton. (Blanche was his second wife).

https://www.wikitree.com/photo.php/f/f0/Bertram-1-1.png

All the way down at the bottom of the pedigree chart.

These two are one and the same:

Helen ‘Elena’ Holgrave, baroness of Bothal

Helen ‘Elena’ Holgrave, baroness of Bothal

She should be disconnected from Blanche and then merged with the duplicate profile.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Bertram-1

I doubt the maternity at least, of these two.

Christiana de Swynnerton

Elizabeth de Segrave, Baroness de Mowbray

The dates are wrong as well, since daughter Christiana de Swynnerton was born in 1313 while her 'mother' was born ca.1341 and father ca.1342.

Christiana de Swynnerton wasn’t anyone’s known daughter.

https://archive.org/details/collectionsforhi07staf/page/99/mode/1up

“After this I do not meet with this John de Swynnerton's name in connection with the public affairs of the realm, but he lived for several years afterwards. Sir John de Swynnerton married a lady named Christiana, but who she was I have not been able to ascer- tain He was living in 2 Eic. II. (1378-9), Christian being then his wife, and John their son and heir."“

Linda Wellman - your Facebook group seems quite accurate, and indeed ,it seems that Blanche de Mowbray, Lady Poynings had no children.

I believe the Geni tree is sorted now, If you want to check.

Private User - invaluable assistance, I was drawing a blank. Thank you.