George Paleologo Kantakouzenos, "Sachatai" - Messed up tree

George is not the son of Demetrius I Kantakouzenos, despot of Morea

Helena Asanina Kantakouzene, dowager countess of Salona Looks to have a wrong husband and child.

Livio Scremin Can you find George’s real father for me while I disconnect bogus Maltese ancestry?

This should be a good scholarly source.

Nicol, Donald M. (1968). The Byzantine Family of Kantakouzenos (Cantacuzenus), ca. 1100–1460: A Genealogical and Prosopographical Study. Dumbarton Oaks studies 11. Washington, DC: Dumbarton Oaks Center for Byzantine Studies. OCLC 390843.

https://books.google.com/books?id=HqdBAAAAIAAJ

(Dumbarton Oaks is the center for Byzantium Studies).

I’m hoping for a tree we can extract from the book and add as source to profiles.

Reidar Holmsen This area may be an extension of our previous inquiries, assistances much appreciated.

Linda Zimmerman If I can interest you into looking into this area, I think you’ll find it rewarding. There are good sources available, and lively / interesting scholarship, including amazing art history. So far I’ve found Wikipedia articles to be pretty good, although we found a couple of big “oops” there before.

Here is a podcast I’ve been meaning to hear, and the page has good links.

https://byzantiumandfriends.podbean.com/

* Nicol, Donald M. “The Byzantine Family of Kantakouzenos: Some Addenda and Corrigenda.” Dumbarton Oaks Papers, vol. 27, 1973, pp. 309–315. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/1291347. Accessed 13 Mar. 2021.

Dr. Bakay Mária (C) Do you have sources for the parents of Despotess Eirene Branković

You have entered them as Elek Komnemos and Elek Komnemos

This does not agree with the scholar Donald Nicol. He places her as a sister of Georgios Palaiologos Kantakouzenos, "Sachatai"

There was a bad merge.

It looks like Elek Komnemos was the son of Manuel Komnemos and Eudokia Kantakuzin & she was not the wife of Matthew Asanes Kantakouzenos

Proof reading appreciated for family of Matthew Asanes Kantakouzenos

I’d like to lock relationships.

Sorry Erica Howton my Italian here it's useless,
the maximum of my contribution here is to mark the profiles with multilingual wikis with cited sources and let you find the link inside..
(and exclude duplication conflicts, a lot of time saved:)
[Sorry no links to MedLands project:]

PS wiki French of Georgios Palaiologos Kantakouzenos, "Sachatai" quoted his father as a guess [7]*
* [7]Nicol, Byzantine Family, p. 176
..if you have found better sources to exclude it report it wrong /!\

Donald Nicol is the scholarly expert on this family. Unfortunately it seems he’s come up with different formulations, and I’m not sure of the most recent/ most agreed upon. :)

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000173472259072 Has the family in an easy to read registry format. However it’s off a generation at the [uncertain] Theodore Palaiologos Kantakouzenos

The (older) sources skip Theodore or attribute his children to his father.

I think Geni has it right now and agrees with

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000173472196926 and https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000173472196928 and Wikipedia.

As usual, Wiki is a little unsure of itself and varies slightly, article to article. In any event, the discrepancies seem minor.

About Trebizond

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/31300217.pdf

Bah. medlands conflicts with Donald Nicol somewhat.

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/BYZANTIUM%2012611453.htm#TheodoraKa...

THEODOROS Palaiologos Kantakouzenos, son of [DEMETRIOS] Kantakouzenos & his wife --- (after 1361-1410). His parentage is not known. If it is correct as suggested below that Theodoros's eldest son was named Demetrios, it is probable that Theodoros's father was also named Demetrios, consistent with the Byzantine custom of naming the eldest son after his paternal grandfather[574]. Ambassador 1397. Senator 1409. Patrician of Venice 27 Dec 1398. He died of the plague.

m (after 1383) EUPHROSYNE, daughter of --- Sincrula Palaiologos & his wife ---. She is named as wife of Theodoros in the Masarelli Vatican manuscript ...

I cannot find this EUPHROSYNE. The wife shown at Wikipedia’s, based on Nicols, is Helena Ouresina Palaiologina

Cawley is off about Theodore’s wife and children, it seems.

* 10. Williams, Kelsey Jackson (2006). "A Genealogy of the Grand Komnenoi of Trebizond" (PDF). Foundations. 2 (3): 171–89. Archived (PDF) from the original on 8 June 2019. [https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/31300217.pdf PDF] page 12:
** 16. Nicol (1968, pp.176-192) published an accurate account of Theodoros’ children but mistakenly attributed them to the sebastokrator Demetrios Kantakouzenos (d.c.1384), an error which Hunger noted in his edition of Chortasmenos and which Nicol corrected in his addenda (1973, pp.312-313). Brook (1989, pp.6-8) establishes that Theodoros’ wife, and consequently '''Theodora’s mother, was Helena Uroš Doukaina, daughter of Ioannes Uroš Doukas, Emperor in Thessaly''', c.1371-1372, and grandson of Stefan Uroš III Dečanski, King of Serbia.

Aha Sherlock! Back in Byzans!

The Cantacuzenes are, if I am right, still having a living line.

Wasn’t there a castle? Italy? We should investigate. There were a lot of profiles not on Geni which I filled in. Was leading to Greece, actually.

A pair of notables:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Mikhail_Cantacuzène and his wife https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Dent_Cantacuzène_Spiransky-Grant

So now we’re at the fun part.

You are right !

Cantacuzino family

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantacuzino_family

Maj. Gen. Mikhail Mikhailovich Cantacuzino-Speransky

Maj. Gen. Michael Mikhailovich Speransky Cantacuzene is your 21st cousin twice removed.

Maybe ...

“ The eminent Byzantinist Steven Runciman considered the latter-day Kantakouzenoi "perhaps the only family whose claim to be in the direct line from Byzantine Emperors, as authentic",[5] but according to the historian Donald Nicol, "Patriotic Rumanian historians have indeed labored to show that ... of all the Byzantine imperial families that of the Kantakouzenos is the only one which can truthfully be said to have survived to this day; but the line of succession after the middle of the fifteenth century is, to say the least, uncertain."[6]

https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/Elyh2aiJEHQ

The claim of the Bucharest-originated Paleologue family to imperial root
from Constantinople has been regarded a fraud for about a century and
more....
However, they might actually have a root which is not at all far from
enabling this claim in a sense - although this root has its start in a way
that no definitive descent from Emperors can be shown.

The uncertainty is the same as often commented: the Kantakouzenos of
Ankhialos family of the 1500s may have in some way had imperial roots, but
it cannot be proved. ...

following ML Eudokia Komnenos connects to the Trebizond empire
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_Trebizond

The days when “despot” and “autocrat” were preferable terms to Emperor.

(I'm a despot now. I'm correcting and grading student papers - will get back to Byzans in a day or so.)

https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/B1-gLOQEHA8

warning about low-quality genealogies: case of Cantacuzino

Mihai Saintanoglu Cantacuzino