Rabbi Akiva Hakohen Katz, ABD Saloniki (Alter of Salonika) - Born in Spain?

According to one of the books that
Eli rubin Upload the link to them, there is a dispute whether

Yosef HaCohen Katz, She'erit Yosef
He is indeed a descendant of
Rabbi Akiva Hakohen Katz, ABD Saloniki (Alter of Salonika)
Or there is a mistake in the books

they all just say "from the exiles of spain"

Let's do a deep dive. We cannot rely on any modern sources, since they are invariably infected by all of the Sephardic misinformation of the 19th century.

So, let's start with HaGaon Rabbi Akiva HaCohen Katz, of Ofen who apparently died in Prague, according to the ethical will of Rabbi Shabtai Sheftel HaLevi Horowitz, Baal Vavei HaAmmudim published with his grandfather's book Yesh Nochlin in 1701.

Private User translated it for me and it says:

As is well known the third destruction (after the destruction of the 2 temples in Jerusalem) in the years 1648 and 1649 caused massive loss of life and also caused confusion about family identity. The sages of that time tried to salvage the family lineages but there was a limit to how much they could do, and there is reason to fear that in later times people will claim to be part of a distinguished family or to place a blemish in a holy seed. Therefore it is important for anyone who lives in such a time to write a clear pedigree and leave it for his children so that they may know precisely from whom they are descended. I therefore wish to tell you my beloved young and wise son Isaiah (SG"L) that you are my son, and I am the son of the Gaon and pious Rabbi Yeshaye SG"L author of Shnei Luchos Habris, grandson of Rabbi Avrohom son of Rabbi Sheftel, author of Emek Brachah, and Rav Sheftel was the son of Rabbi Yeshaye SG"L and he (Rabbi Yeshaye) was the son-in-law of the prince Akiva of Oben (OBuda, now part of Budapest) who is buried in the holy community of Prague near the grave of my mother. My mother Chaya was said in her time to have performed all the good deeds of teh matriarchs Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel and Leah. She was the daughter of a Torah scholar, who was also a great philanthropist and her motehr too was from a great family the daughter of Rabbi Moshe Charif (the sharp mind) son of Rabbi Israel of Lublin, and all of them were of pure family lineage. I have written this not that I wish to boast of it just that you and my daughter shopuld know who you are and who are your ancestors, and you should instruct your children, and they to their children for all time, for the Holy One blessed be He only rests His presence on those of pedigree.

I don't find the grave of HaGaon Rabbi Akiva HaCohen Katz, of Ofen in Koppelmann Lieben's Gal Ed (1856). Maybe it is in Muneles' book, which I don't have with me. Perhaps Private User can check for us.

On Geni we have his father as Rabbi Yitzhak HaCohen Katz, [of Galata]. Not sure what the source is. In the Jewish Encyclopedia, the father is Menachem. Again, I do not know the source for that either.

We might find in Muneles the transcription of the grave of Yocheved Horowitz, daughter of HaGaon Rabbi Akiva HaCohen Katz, of Ofen.

P.S. I think Private User made one mistake in interpreting the ambiguous "he". The son-in-law of Rabbi Akiva was more likely Rabbi Shabtai (Sheftil) Halevi Horowitz. His father Rabbi Yeshaya ben Moshe Asher HaLevi, The 1st Horowitz was married to Rivka Horowitz- Munka.

You can see the gravestone at https://media.geni.com/p10/2998/0466/53444837fdcf7671/Yocheved_Horo...

At the moment, this stone and the ethical will published 1702 https://media.geni.com/p13/75/a3/38/72/5344483eee1b5fb7/pastedgraph...
are the two reliable sources I have seen for Akiva Katz.

The akiva katz on the grave is the grandson of of the salonikan one, and it doesn't mention the grandfather's background. The book anaf etz avot I sent earlier mentioned the epitaph of Akiva the Prince.

I added that source to the profile of Rabbi Yitzhak HaCohen Katz, [of Galata]

I don't think Eli Rubin would mind me telling you all that he graciously agreed to take the YDNA plunge...so his test* is on order and will soon be underway. When we have results we can report to this group. Of course, it would be very useful to have a second person who has a fairly solid direct paternal line descendance from Rabbi Akiva with whom to compare...but I do not have a contact for such a person as yet. And if such a person can be found, I'd appreciate help in covering testing costs since I am not rich! (*My strategy is to do a basic 37 marker test to identify the major haplogroup branch---perhaps more if there are informative matches--and then if the results are promising I would upgrade to a BigY test to absolutely confirm the exact terminal branch)

BTW, some of you may be aware of the genetic testing being done by Jeffrey Paull on rabbinical lineages. However, his focus is on descendants of more recent rabbinical ancestors (1700s/1800s) and so they do not shed light on this particular lineage. The trickiest part is identifying lineages where the patrilineal path to the ancestor in question doesn't veer off via a marriage to a notably wife or where no ancestor just adopted a prestigious surname from a wife, in-law etc. Don't get me wrong, I love and admire the women along the way---but YDNA testing doesn't work to correctly identify an ancestral lineage if there is a female on the path.

I think our best bet for a second descendant would be from 'prince' Akiva's line, so I'll start searching for someone.

Men from the lines of Dr. Leopold "Leo" Karpeles, Stephen Schorr Kon, and Otto Karpe are all direct father-son descendants of Akiva.

also, just a pretty cool bit of info, I just learned that apparently a direct patrilineal descendant of Akiva received the congressional medal of honor during the civil war! Color Sgt. Leopold Karpeles

Eli Rubin
Very interesting, Stephen schorr kon is my cousin (4) and on the other hand he is a member of the kon family who turns out that my mother is also a descendant of this family (but on her side I am only at the beginning of the study)
https://www.geni.com/path/haim-wartski-Hachoen+is+related+to+Stephe...
My research is only about my g. grandparents, I am not looking for cousins, so I did not know at all about its existence

I found one possible source of information: A History of the Jews in Hungary (1884) by R' Samuel Kohn (this is the first volume covering until the year 1526, of an intended two volume work which was never completed). This is one of the sources used by Kayserling for his Jewish Encyclopedia article about Akiva HaGaon of Buda/Ofen (https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1037-akiba-ha-kohen-of-...). Two problems: the book is in Hungarian and I do not see any translations. Here it is in Hungarian: https://digitalia.lib.pte.hu/hu/pub/kohn-samuel-a-zsidok-tortenete-... // The other source used by Kayserling is: Frumkin, Eben Shemuel, pp. 111 et seq. I have not been able to find any information about this book. // I am still seeking Sephardic history sources and have located several books by Haim Beinart and Meyer Kayserling which could have some info, but this will have to wait until the NYPL re-opens.

Thanks to some help from Ittai Hershman, I have the Frumkin volume referred to in the previous post: https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=36585&st=&pgnum=1... URL goes directly to page 111 and perhaps someone more capable in Hebrew can take a look at the subsequent pages to see if there are any pertinent facts about the Akiva lineage? For the Hungarian book I will attempt to locate a translator.

The info on page 111 mentions him as a Horowitz father-in-law and then continues to tell the story about the 24 children and one of them was yochevet horowitz, and that he was "prince" of ofen. Nothing new. I could translate it word for word for you, But I don't think it's that important of a source.

*25 children

I've extracted pages 227 to 232 of the Kohn book (the ones which deal with Akiva) in the event a reader if this discussion happens to read Hungarian: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AuwT-4qnkJLBjWBXrfU5leuLtF62?e=bWrWOY

Thanks Eli. There is no need for a full translation.

A number of jewish encyclopedia type sources say that "prince" akiva was the son of Menachem, but I haven't seen that in any recorded family trees.

Looking at every clue carefully: in this text, Is the Hebrew words used for "prince": Nasi? If so I wonder if that might mean something. I've usually seen the term haNasi applied to Sephardim and Tzarfatim more than to Ashkenazim. Any thoughts? As for Menachem, that's another loose end. I am hoping that the Kohn book may have some new facts. I should be able to delve further into Kohn this week.

Private User
the title
Nasi is in Spanish Jewish(Sephardim), in all the research I do, I have never seen any Jew of Ashkenazi descent who had the title nasi
in hebrew):
נשיא )

Update on sources: I was able to get a semi readable translation of the Hungarian text and there is nothing in there about an earlier Spanish/Portuguese ancestry for Akiva of Ofen/Buda. This makes sense considering that the author of the JE article, Meyer Kayserling, would have included such information if he had known anything about it. To summarize this expedition: 1) the JE article written by renowned historian and rabbi Meyer Kayserling, who was both an expert on Sephardic Jewry and the Chief Rabbi at Budapest MAKES NO MENTION OF A SEPHARDIC ORIGIN for Akiva of Ofen/Buda, 2) neither of the two reference volumes used by Kayserling (Kohn and Frumkin) MAKE ANY MENTION OF A SEPHARDIC ORIGIN. I am not hanging up the towel yet though: I want to check Haim Beinart, which may not be for a while since NYC is still at the extremely high risk level.

Lior Finkelstein In a post you made in this thread on March 15, 2021 you mentioned Haim Beinart as a source for the Spanish/Portuguese origin. Could you please specify the name of the book? One of these days I hope to be able to get to a library that has a pretty good Beinart collection so I can maybe find the volume and then settle this conundrum for good.

Y-DNA testing update...I've gotten nowhere trying to reach Leo Karpeles (manager claims to be unaware of that entry...oy) and am now trying to nab Stephen Kon...will post if/when successful. (-;

Debra Katz Thanks Deb. On the search for testees, I sent a message mid-March to Mr. Karel Stehlik following Randy's suggestion and have not heard back, so this appears to be a no-go for now. With luck there will be two or three testable branches when all is said and done. Until the next breakthrough, be well.

Follow Through: It has taken this long for the research materials to become available to me and I would like to report my findings so as to tie up this loose end, I am listing the books reviewed here to avoid duplicate work if some future researcher wishes to look for more evidence elsewhere:

a) Exile and Diaspora : studies in the history of the Jewish people presented to Professor Haim Beinart; Jerusalem : Ben-Zvi Institute of Yad Izhak Ben-Zvi and the Hebrew University of Jerusalem ; Madrid : Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Científicas, 1991

b) Moreshet Sepharad = The Sephardi Legacy / edited by Haim Beinart; Jerusalem : Magnes Press, Hebrew University, 1992 (both volumes)

c) The Expulsion of the Jews from Spain / Haim Beinart ; translated by Jeffrey M. Green; Oxford ; Portland, Or. : Littman Library of Jewish Civilization, 2002

d) The Jewish Community of Salonika : History, Memory, Identity / Bea Lewkowicz; London ; Portland, OR : Vallentine Mitchell, 2006

e) Geschichte der Juden in Spanien und Portugal by Meyer Kayserling. Hildesheim, Gerstenberg Verlag, 1978 (Kayersling remember is the historian and rabbi who wrote the Jewish Encyclopedia article about R' Akiva of Budin, the grandson of R' Akiva the Elder of Salonika)

f) Biblioteca española-portugueza-judaica and other studies in Ibero-Jewish bibliography by the author, and by J.S. da Silva Rosa; with a bibliography of Kayserling's publications by M. Weisz. Selected with a prolegomenon by Yosef Hayim Yerushalmi (NB: This volume includes what seems to be a complete list of Kayserling's numerous historical writings, articles, lectures, and books, most of which are in German, and would be a good source of further research for those with access to such materials)

The above in addition to the two prior discussed works by Kohn and Frumkin listed as bibliographic sources at the end of the Jewish Encyclopedia article by Kayersling entitled 'R' Akiba HaCohen of Ofen'.

In all of the above sources there isn't a speck of evidence connecting R' Akiva the Elder of Salonika to the Balearics, Spain, or Portugal. If one considers that Kayserling, who wrote his article about R' Akiva of Budin' for JE in 1901 (at the end of his career) and had already written the 'History of Jews in Spain and Portugal' as well as numerous other books and articles on Sephardic topics by that time, it seems clear that he (Kayserling) had seen no evidence regarding Sephardic origins for R' Akiva of Budin or his grandfather R' Akiva the Elder, or else this evidence would have made its way into one of these writings. To be clear, I have not read every word written by Kayersling and he wrote quite alot, so there could be some reference in another book which I did not see. The above books are the only ones I could obtain at the local library.

I am not saying that this absence of evidence proves the question: I am only reporting that despite a fair amount of searching I found no evidence supporting the factoid of R' Akiva the Elder's being a refugee from Spain, Portugal, or the Balearics. I am always open to new evidence so please keep this thread's followers informed if anything new appears on this matter.

PS: In reference to some earlier discussion in this thread. In the article The “Mother of Israel” or the “Sephardi Metropolis”? Sephardim, Ashkenazim, and Romaniotes in Salonica

(Jewish Social Studies: History, Culture, Society vol. 22, no. 1 (Fall 2016): 81–129. Copyright © 2016 The Trustees of Indiana University. doi:10.2979/jewisocistud.22.1.03)

authored by Devin E. Naar, Isaac Alhadeff Professor of Sephardic Stud-ies, associate professor of history and Jewish Studies, and chair of the Sephardic Studies Program at the University of Washington. He is the author of Jewish Salonica: Between the Ottoman Empire and Modern Greece (2016). (denaar@uw.edu),

Professor Naar repeats the list of synagogues founded in Salonika:

"Known as the “historic congregations,” the 29 initial kehalim established in Salonica through the seventeenth century demonstrate the diverse backgrounds of the city’s Jews. The names of the kehalim referred to the places from which their founders came. The plurality—13—were founded by Jews who arrived not directly from Spain but from Italy (named Italia, Sisilia, Pulia, Otranto); seven by Jews from Spain (Sefarad, Kastiya, Mayorca, Cataluña, Aragon); five from Portugal (Portugal, Lisbon, Evora); and one from North Africa (Mograbis). They joined Greek (Etz Ahaïm, established in the first century), central European (Ashkenaz, 1376), French (Provencia, 1394), and Venetian (1423) congregations that had been established, according to local tradition, prior to 1492." p 86

In the footnote following this passage, Professor Naar cites the following reference for this information:

Elias Messinas, The Synagogues of Salonika and Veroia (Athens, 1997)

So it seems that the establishment in 1376 of an Ashkenazic Synagogue in Salonika, cited in Wikipedia, is supported by several scholars.

Further on in the same article Naar states:

"Ashkenazi Jews had deep roots in Salonica, with their first synagogue established, according to local tradition, in 1376 by Jews from Hungary and expanded by Jews from Germany in 1470." p. 103

My guess is that the Buda Jews who built the Salonika temple were not that far removed from the Holy Roman Empire themselves, likely having fled from there about 100 years earlier. This remains to be verified....