Senator/Generaal Schalk Willem Burger - Wrong spouse?

Started by Sharon Doubell on Sunday, January 3, 2021
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1/3/2021 at 9:40 PM

Sophia Maria Robberts says I came across this profile of Snator/Generaal Schalk Willem Burger - but there are a few discrepancies.
https://www.geni.com/people/Senator-Generaal-Schalk-Burger/60000000...

According to his DN he only had one wife namely Alida Glaudina de Villiers.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS9T-LQ2L-B?i=1404...

On Geni he is connected to another wife namely Dorothea Regina Maria Joubert (07.08.1834), aged 18 years his senior. This could be a mistake.
https://www.geni.com/people/Dorothea-Regina-Maria-Burger-b5c7d5e3f5...

He also had a sister Dorothea Regina Burger (01.08.1852) which makes her only 36 days older than him. Maybe she is linked to the wrong parents or the incorrect dates are linked to her?
https://www.geni.com/people/Dorothea-Regina-van-der-Merwe/600000002...

Does anyone have documentation on her birth record to confirm her parents? Unfortunately her parents are not specified on her DN.

J P Weyers
1/3/2021 at 10:06 PM

Wife DRM Joubert confirmed on baptism of daughter Dorothea Regina born 1852 same year as him ; wrong persons baptism ?

His son born 1854 when he was 2 years old as well.

J P Weyers
1/3/2021 at 10:13 PM

Both chidren baptisms 1852 and 1854 added and confirmed by Lea Herbst : father born 1852 ?

J P Weyers
1/3/2021 at 10:17 PM

Sister born 01/08/1852 is also his daughter see birth and baptism on daughter's profile.
Definitely 2 different Schalk Willem Burger here.

J P Weyers
1/3/2021 at 10:20 PM

Husband Schalk Willem Burger of DRM Joubert born 1830

J P Weyers
1/3/2021 at 10:21 PM

Schalk Willem Burger born 1828 died September 1924

1/3/2021 at 10:22 PM

Dorothea Regina Maria Burger is def not his wife: He married Alida when they were in their early twenties, and she's on his DN. Removing this relationship.

1/3/2021 at 10:43 PM

'Sister' Dorothy = Dorothea Regina v Niekerk, vd Merwe
Dorothea Regina Burger (1 Aug 1852 - 21 Aug 1936)
x 25 Jan 1875 Ockert Tobias van Niekerk (b c 1854)
xx 4 Oct 1910 Zacharias Francois van der Merwe (b c 1852)

1/3/2021 at 10:47 PM

Daughter Dorothea = Dorothea Regina Burger
Dorothea Regina Burger (29 January 1889 - 12 November 1965)
do Schalk Willem Burger & Alida Glaudina de Villiers

Vouched for on both her parents' DNs

1/3/2021 at 11:24 PM

But Dorothea Regina v Niekerk, vd Merwe baptism evidence 1852 with Father: Schalk Willem Burger
Mother: Dorothea Regina Maria Joubert is on geni as wife of Ockert Tobias van Niekerk, 1 and Zacharia Francois van der Merwe

1/3/2021 at 11:28 PM

Private User the baptism doc upload is yours. There are obviously two Dorothea Regina Burgers who are daughters of two different Schalk Willem Burgers. To which father do you think the wife of Ockert & Zacharias belongs?

1/3/2021 at 11:41 PM

Private User - If we could find Sources for the other Schalk Willem Botha (1828-1924) Schalk Willem Burger - we might be able to solve the problem of his children

Can you help?

1/3/2021 at 11:49 PM

We know that the Senator Schalk def had a daughter Dorothea Regina Burger bec it says so on his DN (and on his wife - Alida de Villiers's)

It also seems quite likely that the other Schalk (wife Dorothea Regina Maria Joubert) had a daughter called Dorothea Regina after her mother.

The question is which one married Ockert & Zacharia?

cf Dorothea Regina Burger
and Dorothea Regina v Niekerk, vd Merwe

Given that the Senator's daughter's gravestone doesn't mention a husband, I'm going with the second

1/3/2021 at 11:53 PM

Lea, this means that I'm removing the citation for her father as being the Senator Schalk off the baptism doc you uploaded, and replacing him with the ordinary Schalk - Schalk Willem Burger

1/4/2021 at 12:01 AM

Now the question is where this profile for Dorothea Regina (presently impossibly clse sister of the Senator) fits:

Dorothea Regina v Niekerk, vd Merwe

Dorothea Regina Burger (1 Aug 1852 - 21 Aug 1936)
x 25 Jan 1875 Ockert Tobias van Niekerk (b c 1854)
xx 4 Oct 1910 Zacharias Francois van der Merwe (b c 1852)

The gravestone details of which are
Dorothea Regina vdMerwe b Burger
widow of DTViekerk
1 Aug 1852 - 21 Aug 1936

1/4/2021 at 12:05 AM

It seems that she fits the profile for the daughter of the ordinary Schalk Willem

1/4/2021 at 12:11 AM

And the reason for the repeated Dorothea Regina names is that Dorothea Regina Joubert is Senator/Generaal Schalk Willem Burger's grandmother:
→ Cornelia Margaretha Joubert Burger, b5c7d5e3f3
his mother → Dorothea Regina van Eeden Joubert, b4c7d6e5
her mother

Which makes Dorothea Regina Burger (daughter of the ordinary Schalk) Senator/Generaal Schalk Willem Burger's first cousin [not his sister]
Senator/Generaal Schalk Willem Burger
→ Cornelia Margaretha Joubert Burger, b5c7d5e3f3
his mother → Dorothea Regina Maria Joubert Burger, b5c7d5e3f5
her sister → Dorothea Regina Burger, 1
her daughter

1/4/2021 at 12:46 AM

Thanks Sophia Maria Robberts for spotting the problem and doing the groundwork research. Thanks J P Weyers for jumping in and helping.

1/4/2021 at 12:56 AM

So in answer to initial post:
Alida is his only wife (but they do have a Dorothea Regina daughter)

This Dorothea Regina Maria Burger is his Aunt, not his wife - and she is married to another Schalk Willem Burger

Dorothea Regina v Niekerk, vd Merwe is his first cousin; not his sister

The source of all the Dorothea Reginas is their grandmother Dorothea Regina Joubert

1/4/2021 at 12:57 AM

I've locked relationships where it seems we they are in danger of being mismerged

J P Weyers
1/4/2021 at 1:24 AM

Only a pleasure.

J P Weyers
1/4/2021 at 9:51 PM

Surnames ?
On profiles of women do we use married surnames or maiden names
?
Last surname she had when she died would be more appropriate surely.

1/4/2021 at 10:30 PM

Geni will show both in a chronology.

Protocol is not to fabricate facts - so you don't give a married surname to a woman in cultures / eras / countries where women didn't/ don't take them. If she has ever been legally known by her husband's surname - add it. (Unless she's alive, and can decide for herself.)

In SA, this means that
1.from roughly 1800 all women tend to have married surnames because the British govt of the country used them.
2.Before 1800 only British South Africans tend to use them, and the Dutch and French do not.

1/4/2021 at 10:31 PM

The Geni fields deliberately have a place for both

1/4/2021 at 10:33 PM

I haven't taken my husband's surname - but kept my birth surname - hence my name doesn't read Sharon Doubell Leach, because there will be no documentation anywhere that records me as Leach.

J P Weyers
1/5/2021 at 6:21 AM

-so SA after 1800 husbands surname ?
- and if the lady has her husbands surname on her gravestone and her death notice ?
Respect her and put surname as she used it.
So his daughter was Dorothea Regina van der Merwe not Burger.

1/5/2021 at 7:36 AM

No, you always add the maiden name in the birth surname field. That's a genealogical standard for reason of differentiating and searching for the person. Married surnames can change, birth surnames don't.

J P Weyers
1/5/2021 at 7:49 AM

What I meant as here
van der Merwe (Burger )
not just the maiden name --as Daniel Nelson corrected it --
or as you have added
v Niekerk , vd Merwe (Burger)

1/5/2021 at 7:50 AM

If it's a user, or a living person in your family you can style them as you prefer; or put all the names in the fields but change the Display Name to show how you want their name to look - but once you you reach gr granny and you're sharing relatives/ management, you should revert to always using maiden names, and adding married surnames as well only if they used them.

Showing 1-30 of 32 posts

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