Thomas Bruce, 1st Baron Clackmannan - Not the first baron?

What evidence do we have to prove the claim that "Sir Thomas Bruce, 1st Baron of Clackmannan married Marjorie Charteris of Stenhouse. Received the lands of Clackmannan from his cousin King Robert II as a reward for which he was granted for organising a rising against English rule in 1334. He died in 1358/9."

cf https://www.geni.com/discussions/223582?msg=1438765

Acc to the Charters of Clackmannan https://archive.org/stream/collectionstowar1868clac/collectionstowa...

The first record in the present series
is an extract from old Public accounts of the
kingdom, dated 20th June, 1330, " Compotum
Reginaldi More Camerarii Scotie reddit. apud
Glackmannane vicesimo die Junii anno Gratia;
1330 de receptis suis expensisin diem presentis
compoti." In this half-yearly account the following payment is taken credit for " Domino
Roberto de Bruys in partem quingentarum
marcarum sibi concess. per Dominum Regem
defunctum de anno hujus compoti £40." It
does not appear from the account which Sir
Robert de Bruce this was ; it however goes
far to disprove the statement in the second
volume of Chalmers' History of Dunfermline, p.
424, that a Sir Robert de Bruce was not the
first of the Bruces of Clackmannan, but that a
Thomas de Brace, who left a widow "Marjorie
Charleris," was, prior to 1358, Lord of Clack-
mannan. No Thomas is mentioned in these
charters till Thomas obtains Kennet from his
father, in 1389. In 1326, Sir Robert de Bruce,
probably the Sir Robert above mentioned, was
a witness to a charter of King Robert the
Bruce of lands in Nith to the Abbey of Melrose,
(Liber Cash : S. Cracis Munimenta Ecc : S.
Crucis de Edin.) ; and, in 1327, Sir Robert de
Bruce, Lord of Lydlysdale, and Reginald More,
were witness to a char of Wm. de Lyndsey,
(Glasgow Chartulary)...

These Public accounts also contain the fol-
lowing entry, which, when read with the state-
ment that the account was rendered to the
King (David Bruce) "at Clackmannan," shows
that it was still a Royal residence. "Item
onerat se de 16 celdris siliginis superius per
emptionem quas liberavit Simoni de Pebles

granetareo de Clackmannan

super compotum 13 c. de quibus respondebit."
The Royal larder at Clackmannan was well
filled at this time as the Chamberlain, or Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, as he would now be
called, also takes credit for 23 chaldrons of
wheat, 43 chaldrons of barley, 103 chaldrons of
oats, all delivered to Simon de Peebles, the
keeper of the Clackmannan granaries, — 46
hogsheads of wine, 29 carcases of beeves, 160
muttons, 29 Baconum superius, 4 last, 5748
alecum, 4040 salmon, 9908 hard fish, 80 gross-
arum anguillarum (eels), and a barrel contain-
ing 288 large eels, 1 porpoys, also barrels of
olive oil and vinegar, a great deal of cloth, and
a variety of clothing — 107 pounds of ginger,
101 pound "de Gingebrat," 118 pounds of
zucar, 4 pounds of mace, &c. &c.

No. 2, is a further extract from the Public
accounts, and dated 25th June 1330. " Com-
potum Reginaldi More reddit. apud Clack-
mannan 25th die Junii anno Gratia} 1330 de

>

firmis quarundam terraram infra Vice, de
Strivelyn.

This account only relates to some feu duties
payable from lands in Stirlingshire, but its
being rendered "at Clackmannan" indicates
that the King still occupied the Castle as a
Royal residence.

No. 3; dated 14 Dec. 1331.— Compotum
Reginaldi More Camerarii Scotie reddit. apud
Sconam 14th die Decembris anno Gratiae 1331
de receptis suis et expensis a 14th die Martis
1330 usque in diem presentis compoti.

In this account credit is taken for the follow-
ing Et Domino Roberto de Bruys de veteri
arrer. ex remissione Custodis 4 Celdris. This
appears to be the same Sir Robert de Bruys
mentioned in No. 1 as having received a grant
from King Robert de Bruys of 500 marks. If
he be the same Robert Bruce, or the father
of the one who received the grant of Clack-
mannan, &c, he was a blood relation of the King,
for in No. 4, by which Clackmannan was con-
veyed to Robert de Bruys, he is styled " Con-
sanguineo nostro," ...

No. 4, dated 9th December, 1359, is the first
charter yet known containing any grant of the
Castle and Barony of Clackmannan. It was
made by King David Bruce to and in favour of
his beloved and faithful cousin, ("dilecto et
fedeli consanguineo nostro,") Robert de Bruys
of the Castle and Barony of Clackmannan, the
lands of Grasmenston, Gartlove, Wester Kennet,
Hillend, Carsehill, Greys, Park Meadow, Dry-
field, Tullygarth, Pitfoulden, and others, within
the Sheriffdom of Clackmannan.

The above shows no signs of a Thomas Bruce in documents to do with Clackmannan before 1389

It suggests that the Castle at Clackmannen was occupied by Kimg David until he gives it to his cousin Robert Bruce in 1359. Robert Bruce (but no Thomas is documented in connection with Clackmannen from 1330.)

Further, there is no evidence to link him to James Bruce or Alexander Bruce as his sons. There is no evidence provided of their existence at all.

Disconnecting these two, pending good sources.

Additionally, there appears to be no proof that he is the father of Robert Bruce, Baron Clackmannan & Rate; proprietor of lands of Kennet

Nice to meet you too cousin, I'm a time traveler trust me it's true, I was there in another life, Lol.. How would I know..... You seem to be the expert

:-) Hello cousin. Thanks for popping in.