The two versions of the 1393 Charter that we have - show the/a genesis of the issue of Thomas as David's brother, or Thomas as David's son:

No. 10.— 4th Oct., 1393— Crown Charter of
Resignation by King Robert III., proceeding
on the Rocuratory of Resignation of Robert de
Bruys, whereby the King new grants the
lands and Barony of Clackmannan, and all the
pertinents, to Robert de Bruys, whom failing, to
David Bruys, his eldest son, and the heirs male,
procreated or to be procreated, of his body,
whom failing, to Thomas Bruys, also his son,
and the heirs male of his body, to be held of
the King and his successors in fee and heritage.
Witnesses : Walter, Bishop of St Andrews ;
Mathew, Karl of Monteath and Fife, brother to
the King ; James de Douglas, Lord of Dalkeith ;
Thomas de Erskine, knight ; and Alexander de
Cockburn of Langtown, Keeper of the Great
Seal.
https://archive.org/stream/collectionstowar1868clac/collectionstowa...

Vs

II. Sir ROBERT BRUCE of Clackmannan,
who, upon his own resignation, got a charter
from king Robert III. of the lands of Rait in
Perth-shire,* to himself in liferent, and to David
his eldest lawful son, and the heirs-male
of his body in fee; which failing, to his own
nearest heirs whatsomever; dated at Linlithgow,12th August 1393.

And another charter of the same prince,
of the lands of Clackmannan, &c. to himself
in liferent,* and to the said David his lawful
son, and the heirs-male of his body, in fee;
which failing, to his son Thomas, and his
heirs-male; which failing, to return to the
king, &c. dated 24th October 1394; in
both which charters, this sir Robert is designed
the king's beloved cousin, and his son David is so designed in the last.
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/ecco/004896980.0001.000/1:99?rgn=div1;...

Given this :
"Also, that charter clearly states that Thomas is paying his father ROBERT not David.

*May 1389.— Charter of Robert de Bruys of Clackmannan and Rate to and in
favour of Thomas de Bruys, his son, whereby " for good services" he grants the said
Thomas the lands of Wester Kennet and others for payment to his said father of a silver penny yearly."

I'd say Thomas is David's brother, not his son.

Shoo can't keep up with you Sharon;).The sources have been manipulated, for example Robert Bruce of Broomhall is a son of George Bruce of Carnock! this is incorrect as his mother is Margaret Bruce (sister of George) and his father is Archibald Bruce.
We can't try and make the record's fit in with the source's, the source's need to fit in with the records.
The Chamber's encyclopaedia is for me a record,as are the family lineages and the charters
The issue I've had is who is the Robert Bruce mentioned in the encyclopaedia as heir to Thomas Bruce as their is only one.Ive got Robert 3rd Baron married Annabella Rachel Scrymgeour (I've got matches with Scrymgeour, my DNA on Ancestry).Also had a issue with his death date as the source's give it as 1403/5/6 in the battle of Shrewsbury, the record's have his death date as1393 so I looked up the Battle of Shrewsbury and there it says that they are uncertain of the date of the battle ,either: 1393 or 1403.I agree Thomas is David's brother as seen in the Charter and is also the prognater of the Bruce's of Green.
Robert Bruce 3rd Baron was very young when Thomas his father died and it makes sense that a family member of Bruce would stand in until the heir on the paternal line was old enough.

I've added in Sir Robert Bruce, 2nd Baron Clackmannan & Rate; proprietor of lands of Kennet

Sir Robert Bruce fl 1326-30 (Possibly died in his son's infancy/childhood)
possible son of Thomas Bruce & Marjory Charteris
Possible father of Robert Bruce x Isabel Stewart

now the decision is whether Sir Robert Bruce, 2nd Baron Clackmannan & Rate; proprietor of lands of Kennet is one man or two.

His/Their life covers the following Charters and may end c1389; after 1393; or at the Battle of Shrewebury in 1403:

9th December, 1359 is the first charter yet known containing any grant of the Castle and Barony of Clackmannan. It was made by King David Bruce to and in favour of his beloved and faithful cousin, ("dilecto et fedeli consanguineo nostro,") Robert de Bruys of the Castle and Barony of Clackmannan, the lands of Grasmenston, Gartlove, Wester Kennet, Hillend, Carsehill, Greys, Park Meadow, Dry- field, Tullygarth, Pitfoulden, and others, within the Sheriffdom of Clackmannan (.It Is probable that he may have been the son of Sir Robert de Bruce mentioned in Nos. 1.[above] and 2,who was living between 1326 and 1330. Robert de Bruce, it will be observed, who obtains the lands of Clackmannan, is not called "Dominus," or Sir, in the first charter ; he therefore was probably very young at the time of his father's death, (which Chalmers, in his MS. notes to Douglas' Peerage of Scotland, fixes in 1332), and this may account for a period of 27 years before we again find among the present existing charters any notice of Clackmannan or the Bruces. On the authority of Johnston's MS., before quoted, this second Robert is stated to have married Isabel, daughter of Sir Robert Stewart of Rosyth Castle, a second cousin of King Robert II.

1363 — From the Acts of Parliament of this date, vol. 1, p. 168, " Robert de Bruce "is then stated to be proprietor of the lands of Kennet.

20 Oct. 1364. — A Crown Charter by King David Bruce to and in favour of " Robert de Brays," who is again styled " consanguineo nostri" of the lands of Grassmynston, Gartlove Carse, "La Park meadow," Crage Roy,Dryfield,and others, with the pertinents all lying within the Sheriffdom of Clackmannan.

17th Jan. 1367. — A Crown Charter by King David II to and in favour of Robert de Bruys who is again designed " consanguineo nostro," granting the lands and barony of Rate in the county of Perth to be holden of the King and his successors in fee and heritage, and in free barony for service of 3 suits at the King's Courts at Perth — granted at Restenneth on the above date.

2 May 1389 Thomas obtains Kennet from his father .— Charter of Robert de Bruys of Clackmannan and Rate to and in favour of Thomas de Bruys, his son, where- by " for good services" he grants the said Thomas the lands of Wester Kennet and others for payment to his said father of a silver penny yearly. In the history of Noble British Families, part 3, p. 15, it is stated that Robert de Bruce died about this period, and the next Charters of resignation were probably made by the possessor of the estate on succeeding thereto. [WHY, THO?]

4th Oct., 1393 — Crown Charter of Resignation by King Robert III., proceeding on the Rocuratory of Resignation of Robert de Bruys, whereby the King new grants the lands and Barony of Clackmannan, and all the pertinents, to Robert de Bruys, whom failing, to David Bruys, his eldest son, and the heirs male, procreated or to be procreated, of his body, whom failing, to Thomas Bruys, also his son, and the heirs male of his body, to be held of the King and his successors in fee and heritage.

By this Charter, Robert deBruys had gone through the ceremony of resigning or giving them back to the King during his life, and the King then made a new grant of them to him, and his two sons, and their heirs male.

10th June, 1393 — Charter by Robert de Bruys, Lord of Rate and Clackmannan, to his " beloved son, Thomas de Bruys," and his heirs, and assigns of an annualent of ten merks, payable furth off his lands of Tullygarth, lying in the county of Clackmannan, and that in con- sideration of a certain sum of money paid to him, the said Robert de Bruys, in his urgent necessity. To be holden of the said Robert de Bruys and his heirs redeemable on payment of the sum of 25 merks.

18th February, 1399 — Crown Charter of Resignation and Confirmation by King Robert III., ratifying and confirming the Char- ter No. 9, granted by Robert de Bruys to his son, Thomas, of the lands of Wester Kennet, Pitfoulden, and the Cruikitland, all lying in the county of Clackmannan. From this time the estate of Kennet con- tinued separate from that of Clackmannan, and although the families continued on the most intimate terms, and the heiress of Kennet, in 1568, married one of the cadets of Clackmannan, the estates have never been united. https://archive.org/stream/collectionstowar1868clac/collectionstowa...

If we have two men - then this profile approximates the second one. Sir Robert Bruce, 3rd Baron of Clackmannan

Not shown correctly in either are both the sons David and Thomas

This David Bruce b 1392-d .c 1500, have seen him being called old David and it looks as if he lived for 100+ years,was first married to Agnes Redbeugh and then married Margaret
Harries who had a son David 7th Baron who married Janet Blackadder.

Yes Sharon I believe that's correct

Have Robert Bruce of Ross and Clackmannan b.1303- d .1367 (King Robert married Elizabeth de Burgh 1302)
Would also make sense to call his first born son Robert
Thomas "Edward" Bruce b.1318-d .1348
Robert Bruce 3rd Baron b.1340-d.1393
David Bruce 4th and 6th Baron I have as the same person b 1392-c1500
David Bruce 7th b 1497-d.1550
Edward Bruce
This is how the paternal line is run according to Chamber's encyclopaedia,the family lineages, the charters start making sense, the wives birth and death dates also fit in.
Was so frustrated following the source's line as nothing fits

cf Created Sir David Bruce, 4th Baron of Clackmannan and Thomas Bruce, 1st of Wester Kennet, Pitfoulden and Cruicket.

While you were at it, any mention of Robert The Bruce Protecting The Knights Templars who were able to escape From King Phillip and Pope Clement? who died within a year after Oct 13th, off the top of my head 1307???

Not that I've seen - but I haven't been looking for it. Will yell if I find something.

Well, I've used the charters to source and ratify the line. I took it to about 1500

Sir David Bruce, 7th Baron Of Clackmannan Janet Blackadder

and David Bruce, of Wester Kennet (snr) x Agnes Redheugh

I've added the pertinent Charters to each of the profiles. It was a lot of work, and now I'm tired :-)

Thank you Sharon for all your hard work, you are a srar

My pleasure. Sorry we didn't establish where Thomas fits in. I'll create a Charter project to store the template when I get the energy :-)

Here's the project - Bruce in the Charters of Clackmannan: https://www.geni.com/projects/Bruce-in-the-Charters-of-Clackmannan/...
- all welcome & invited to join.

And that is how we had everything stolen from us!

No David Bruce married to Agnes Redbeugh is of Easter Kennet!

Sharon Robert Bruce and Annabelle Rachel Scrymgeour, this Robert Bruce/ Broase are not from the paternal line of the royal Bruce's, he was standing in as a caretaker! and well he was at it helped himself to Airth and Wester Kennet :(

Great thanks Sharon for your time and appreciate the help :)
No there are two David's only. David 7th and David 6th who was married to Agnes Redbeugh.
Im going to edit the line for you and it will cut out all this confusion and we will have a better understanding, goodnight

I'm going to edit the line according to the Chambers Encyclopedia, they run the line all the way back to Robert Bruce1 (Annandale), in my extensive research of this record can't find one mistake and if we are going to understand the Clackmannan line we are going to have to take note of this record, I have all the charters of Annandale and they collaborate accurately with the Chambers Incyclopidia who pride themselves on only printing fact and is highly regarded by genealogists.

Actually lets get the charters of Annandale;) and we will get the charters of Robert The Bruce and David II then we will have a much better understanding