You totally didn't answer my question, for goodness sake yes or no would do.
Let me ask the question again, do you think its correct that the Bruce's of Wester Kennet took over the baroncy of Clackmannan?

Dean, this is possibly useful to use while sorting Easter Kennet from Wester Kennet:
The Charters, &c., ( No. 24 ...) show that David Bruce of Kennet who succeeded in 1490.

Charter No. 24. 1490. Is a charter of David Bruce of Wester Kennet and not David Bruce of Kennet!

Sharon sure I'll happily be you second eye, happy to help.
On naming- It's complicated.

- to David 7th of Clacks from John Brady between 1534-1537, this is obviously wrong as David Bruce 7th Baron of Clackmannan d. 1497

- and David 7th Baron of Clacks seems to divide the inheritance between his son, Edward Bruce of Blairhall...., this is obviously wrong as Edward Bruce Baron of Blairhall and Easter Kennet was born in 1505, David could not have had a child after his death date.

I suspect that the reason Philip isn't happy, is not because he's confused by the names, but because he has a pre-existing template in his head.....immoral-which is outside the scope of genealogy, this is also obviously wrong as Philip should be Sharon.

OK, guys, I will look into this. To me, it seems that Phillip is not reading the source doc correctly (sorry Philip, but you just aren't because of some of your questions are not appropriate or even applicable if you were)... You can't solve everything at once. On this sort of thing, you have to edit each profile as you move through the mess. And THEN you can see if it makes sense.

I get the feeling you both are talking around 1 or 2 profiles who are confused with each other. But Philip can't paste links, so I am trying to figure out where it is.

Oh, happy Easter by the way, I hope He escapes.

Private User Private User Sharon Doubell
First, Philip, the "source doc" you guys are using is a Secondary Source "Collections Towards A History of the County of Clackmanna" supposedly by a Mr. Justice William Downing Bruce BEFORE he went to Jamaica. So, of the 25 copies that were supposedly printed, this is one of them, and anything found AFTER he went to Jamaica aren't in them unless hand written. And someone had hand written 'corrections' and 'annotations' after it was printed The owner of the doc you are using MIGHT have been Maj. Armstrong of Pirbright Manor in Working [see front piece] (and given the 2011 digitizing, the comments were written between publication and digitizing.

I haven't researched the provenance, but it seems that each of the Charters reviewed are listed in numerical order. Then they seem to be described/summarized in the first paragraph, and then a commentary is added in the following paragraphs.

The only reason this is important is because of Philip's questions about it.

The first thing you guys need to do is sort or who this is. She keeps coming up in different places.
>>Philip Paul Bruce
4/2/2023 at 5:19 PM
Still I can't get my head around why you two don't think Agnes Redhach is the spouse of David 6th.
And you will have to explain Thomas of Wester Kennet being the father, I'm at a loss here.

And this needs to be resolved as to who is referred to in Charter 26 and the commentary
Seems to me that David Bruce of Clackmanna,' the elder', resigned (still alive) his estate on 14 Sep 1497 to his son, David Bruce. And David Bruce (the father "elder") was the husband of Margeret Harries at the time.

>>>Philip Paul Bruce
4/3/2023 at 1:58 PM
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No. 26. Who are they talking about here. Its dated 1497 and David 6th is dead?
Also Robert Bruce of Rait "it would seem!" is dead. Any info on the death date of Robert Bruce of Rait?
Things are not making any sense here.

But Philip thinks Margaret Harries is the wife of a specific guy. So you need to resolve if this is true or not.

>>Philip Paul Bruce
4/3/2023 at 11:56 PM
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Charter 26. Margaret Harries is not the wife of David 6th, she is the wife of David Broase of Wester Kennet, who died 1506.
Agnes Redhach is David 6th wife, are you struggling to read David 6th death record?

No, this is not odd. Whoever wrote the commentary after looking at the Charters thinkgs that the people in 158 are the same as the people with the same names here. The author is saying that people should look at #158 and the people listed and decide if they agree that it is the same people in #26.
Philip Paul Bruce
4/5/2023 at 6:29 AM
I understand why you think David 6th of Clackmannan died 1495, this is incorrect as it can only be a misprint!
Charter No. 25 - 17th May 1495. Complaint by Agnes Redhach.....50 years past, 17th May 1496.
So as you can see two different date's!
The death record given 17 May 1496 is given by Bernard Burgh who was the premiere genealogist of his time. The Charter goes on to say a Royal grant to the Bruce's of Clackmannan.
So these Bruce's who are being spoken about here, it is clearly stating that the Bruce's of Kennet are the Bruce's of Clackmannan.
Then for same reason they say (see No. 158) , this is so odd !
Sharon are you understanding what I'm trying to say here?

If all seems to come back to who exactly married Agness Redhead. Also, the "They" Philip keeps referring to is the author of the Commentary. So it would be William Downing Bruce who would be doing the "lying". But he wasn't, he was just commenting that when he looked at it, it was illegible. He supposedly was the one who wrote the commentary after reviewing the Charters. HE is the one who thinks Charter #24 was too "mutilated so as in many places to be illegible". HE is the one who thinks that the reader should look at Charter #25 in conjunction with understanding Charter #24.
You can disagree with that, but there isn't anything "odd about it".. or the people who signed the doc weren't lying (the doc they signed was legible, just not when Mr. Bruce read it centuries later).

>>>Philip Paul Bruce
4/2/2023 at 4:27 AM
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Hi Sharon
No. 22.- 28 Aug 1485 - Charter by David 7th to his son and heir Robert Bruce, married to Elizabeth Lindsay, this Charter is by David himself.

No. 23.- 15 Dec 1486, - Royal Charter by King James IV, rectifying and confirming this Charter No. 22

No. 24.- 1490. - Here they jump back to the Wester Kennet lineage to make it look like its there two Davids that are being spoken about!

No. 25.- 17 May 1495.- Back to our line and its a charter stating that Agnes Redbeugh is the wife of Old David Bruce 6th.

No. 26.- Here they lie, as we can see from charter 25. that Agnes Redbeugh is the wife of David 6th and not Margaret Harris.

No. 27.- This is also a lie and they are pulling moves here, Old David 6th died in 1496, David 7th died in 1497, they are attaching there line to our line, these charters are false and are not our line, here is the steal.

No. 28. They feel the need to repeat the steal, but also go on to give the truth, "They are representatives of the original Bruce's of Clackmannan". In there own words!
At the end they pin there line onto ours saying that Old David 6th is married to Margaret Harris!

so it seems you need to agree as to who exactly these 2 women married. because it keeps going around and around on them with different husband names.

Mariot "Marion" Herries

Agnes Redheugh

Happy Easter all
Thank you Dean for all your guidance, and I apologize for getting a little hot headed in the moment.
Sharon I respect your hard work, its just as Dean says we are bumping heads over who old David is and who is his spouse.

Well, that's the cross I'll have to bear on the road to Damascus.

This is one of those projects where you have to lock each profile down as you go.

So this is the Wester Kennet line, with there numbering.

Is it possible to sync the charters with this line?
If it is possible, which it should be.

So sir Robert Bruce 3rd baron of Clackmannan 1403-1405 was two years old when he died and had a son Sir David Bruce 4th Baron of Clackmannan 1405-1428. ?

Robert was the 3rd baron for only 2 years (1403-1406). It says nothing about his birth or death.

Then, his son David was the 4th baron during 1405-1428.

sorry. 3 years 1403, 1404, and 1405

Dean you agree with this line?

On David Bruce 6th Baron of Clackmannan profile you have John Bruce 5th Baron of Clackmannan as his Foster Father, Is this correct ?

Are genealogy online tree's excepted as sources for profiles on Geni ?

Would like to know if Charters can be linked to this lineage?