Charlemagne - 35th Great Grandfather?

Awesome discussion. Thanks for the other names shared. Just discovered that Ragnar is my 35th great grandfather. Love it! Fiction or fact....it's fun. Thanks 'cuzzies' x

Remi Joseph KH and Brian - the argument that we are all descended from Charlemagne is transparently fallacious in numerous ways - you have the opportunity to be among the first to stop repeating it. Some mathematician who failled to think for one second about history got acclaimed as an expert. It is a complete crock. Think again and don't incite me to waste my time proving it . The connections in Americans" genetic history to English Royalty goes straight through 17 century Colonial America, The Virginia Company, The Massachusetts Bay Company and let's not forget the Royal African Company.

The Royal African Company was the Stewart royal family slave trafficking operation- quite successful.

So many Americans who have a connection to early Colonial history are likely to have some connection to Charlemagne. It's quite a lot of people but not nearly everybody. Of course other folks might have a connection via different royalty, i.e. Swedish or French or whatever. I also want to mention that although Ragnar has not been completely confirmed as a true historical person but I believe Rollo has.

Digitzed databases have completely transformed history and genealogy research . We all have access to sources and resources that were inconceivable only a few years ago. it really helps to know the history around the when and where u r looking for relatives.

I’m currently showing Charlemagne as 35th gg through immigrant ancestor Arthur Mackworth, of Falmouth

Anyone ever hear of him? Me either. But once you get one guy with a validated pedigree (and get it entered right), (and keep it entered right), you get “the world.”

Ulf, good to hear you repeating your beleaves, but you know, the Ynglingesaga and the other early parts of the Heimskringla are good stories, but the familylinks between the persons mentioned are not provable by good verifiable sources. Yes a lot of sources mentions the kings in Norway, different parts of Sweden and Denmark between 800 and 1100, but almost none of them say much about the familylinks between them and that's the problem.

But if you don't want to believe what the historians have said since the early 1990's be my guest. You can believe what ever you want, and I can believe whatever I want.

Remi Trygve Pedersen
You personal, affected by your bias thoughts, cut off the line between Olof III "the Treasurer", king of Sweden that led down to Björn Ironside without any discussions, because, you do not understand which one of the sources that was most credible and why it was that, probably, as in other cases, you've discussed it on some site with other norwegian genealogist, maybe there, you even have some respect or status, and come up with the idea that this didn't hold up, I guess that you ruled over that discussion too. Then you went back here on Geni, cutting off the lines, locking them to prevent others to recreate the mess you done, happy now?

Prove me wrong.

Take that kind of news with a good portion of skepticism. I have got many similar messages. Even that my oldest ancestor is Jesus... Personally I only trust what can be documented by e.g. church books, census lists and similar.

Regarding the missing links between Sigurd "Snake-in-the-eye" Ragnarsson and Gorm "den Gamle", dansk konge

First, the father of Gorm was Harthacnut I of Denmark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harthacnut_I_of_Denmark, by some still called an semi-legendary king, but how an semi legendary king have ever managed to minted real coins,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnut_of_Northumbria#/media/File:Silve...
???
He also names his son after his predecessor, Guthred, the name can be spelled in various ways, as Gouthrum, or shortened into Gorm, and it means fear of god.

Someone else have created this profile, to at least, try to show the connection,
Knut Harde Sigurdsson, king of Sjaelland but, it is more likely that Knut was a grandson to Sigurd, regarding the chronology, it has been suggested that Knut's father was Svein, who in turn was the son of Sigurd. There is nothing suggesting that Knut 1 was not real, still, we have regardless of physical evidence, the coins, problem to get him accepted among certain self-appointed experts who thinks that they rule over what is right or wrong, what to display or cut off.

So Charlemagne and his lines are not the only ones affected negatively by this method of working by the higly supercritical people who dismisses almost everything not printed in real time, not understanding that almost all chronicles are indeed ex post constructions.

This article supports many sagas, when it comes to how they settled and took control over areas, and where they mainly came from, Norwegians goes into Ireland and Scottland, Danes into England, Swedes goes mainly east.

"The events of the Viking Age altered the political, cultural and demographic map of Europe in ways that are evident to this day. Scandinavian diasporas established trade and settlements that stretched from the American continent to the Asian steppe1. They exported ideas, technologies, language, beliefs and practices to these lands, developed new socio-political structures and assimilated cultural influences."

Article,
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2688-8.epdf?sharing_toke...

Remi wrote:there are no provable descendants living today of Harald Haarfagre (Fairhair) or Ragnar Lodbrok...

-------------

Haraldr Hárfagri
Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway
true decendant
Harald IV Magnusson Gille, king of Norway is Harald Hårfager Hálfdanarson's fifth great grandson.
Harald IV Magnusson Gille, king of Norway

Ragnar Lodbrok
Ragnar 'Lodbrok' Sigurdsson King of Denmark and Norway
true decendant
Magnus Ordulfson Billung is Ragnar lodbrok Sigurdsson, kung av Danmark och Norge's 7th great grandson.
Duke of Saxony Magnus Billung

Charlemagne

Magnus Ordulfson Billung is Charlemagne's 8th great grandson.

I am connected to Harald by an early immigrant to Colonial America. I expect to be able to "prove" or "disprove" the relationship through the maternal line. I already regard it as relatively solid given the other connections I have found. For some people there will never be enough proof of anything that is or is not.

https://www.geni.com/path/Jeffrey-Winter+is+related+to+Harald-I-Fai...

Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway is your 32nd great grandfather.
You juan carlos Blom
→ Juan Iges Blom
your father → Mostrar 31 parientes → Olav «Geirstad» Digerbein Haraldsson, king of Vestfold and Vingulmark
his father → Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway
his father

Este es el perfil maestro de Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway.
Nota del curador Remi Trygve Pedersen (29/7/2018):
Most historians consider Heimskringla of Snorre Sturlasson as uncorrect about Harald compared to more primary sources. If you have any questions about this, please start a discussion. His mother is considered to be Ragnhild Haraldsdatter of Sogn.
Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway

Many profiles on this and other genealogy sites are very heavily documented, including by history and the historical record, which can help to be familiar with (not that it is always correct). Once the person is correctly identified with a certain amount of vital data , gathering more info becomes vastly easier. then u have enough to decide "for sure"., notwithstanding baby swaps milkmen and the like.

Ragnar 'Lodbrok' Sigurdsson King of Denmark and Norway
Ragnar "Lodbrok" Sigurdsson is your 35th great grandfather.
You
→ Juan Iges Blom
your father → Mostrar 34 parientes → Álöf Ragnarsdóttir
his mother → Ragnar "Lodbrok" Sigurdsson
her father

I think Ragnar is still regarded as legendary. Rollo was real , he was William the Conqueror's 3rd Great Grandfather. I am connected several ways, most directly through Colonial governor James Moore, Sr., an all- time vicious brute and the ancestor of a very large number of Americans, but not as many as you might think.

https://www.geni.com/path/Jeffrey-Winter+is+related+to+Gange-Hr%C3%...

Yep Rollo appears to be my ancestor too.

Gange-Hrólfr 'Rollo' Ragnvaldsson

I think there's probably a growing consensus that Ragnar was real too, just not documented well enough for some people . He would have lived a few generations before Rollo, It would not surprise me at all for Geni to be the place where he gets verified along with the rest of us.

The modern standard Rollo is probably a composite person. The real Rollo is known from the French writings, to whatever extent we choose to rely on them.

But we're in trouble when we try to add stuff from the sagas, because it's not at all clear which saga-person is the real Rollo, if any.

I have a documented ancestral line back to Rollo. He is my 32nd great grandfather.

Charlemagne is also my 35th Great-Grandfather.

Here's the link: https://www.geni.com/path/Timothy-Mitchell-Jones+is+related+to+Char...

Charlemagne is Timothy Lavon Mitchell-Jones' 34th great grandfather!
Timothy Lavon Mitchell-Jones
You → John Earl "Johnny" Jones
your father → Lucy Jane Jones
his mother → Jim R. Norris
her father → John Roland Norris
his father → Billy Norris
his father → Thomas Gilbert Norris
his father → John Ezekiel Norris, III
his father → John Norris
his father → Luke Norris
his father → John Norris, Sr
his father → Ann Norris
his mother → Thomas M Hynson, Sr
her father → William Hynson
his father → Lady Margaret Hynson
his mother → Sir William Howard, 1st Baron Howard of Effingham
her father → Thomas Howard, 2nd Duke of Norfolk
his father → John Howard, 1st Duke of Norfolk
his father → Lady Margaret de Mowbray
his mother → Elizabeth FitzAlan, Duchess of Norfolk
her mother → Elizabeth de Bohun, Countess of Arundel
her mother → William de Bohun, 1st Earl of Northampton
her father → Humphrey VIII de Bohun, 4th Earl of Hereford
his father → Maude de Fiennes
his mother → Enguerrand Ingelram II de Fiennes, Baron de Tingry
her father → Agnes de Dammartin
his mother → Aubry II, count of Dammartin
her father → Aubri de Mello, chambrier de France, sieur de Dammartin
his father → Aelis de Dammartin
his mother → Hugues I de Dammartin, comte de Montdidier
her father → Manassès, comte de Dammartin
his father → Hélvise de Laon, et de Roucy
his mother → Roger II comte de Laon Laon
her father → Heilwig di Friuli
his mother → Giséle of Cysoing
her mother → Louis I, The Pious
her father → Charlemagne
his father

Okay so Charlemagne is apparently my 34th Great Grandfather. Nice.
Just wondering about Bjorn Ironside (my apparent 35th Great Uncle)...Aslaug is noted as his mother. Truth or no? Just curious as in the tv series his mother was Lagertha... of course that was fiction but still wondering now lol.

According to Saxo, Ragnar had a son with her, Fridleif, as well as two daughters, whose names are not recorded.
Lagertha

Kaylene Russell Ragnar was likely not a real person, or more likely he is a mash of several men across several generations. There is a lot of information and links and documents in his profile.

Oh well. ;-)

The TV people weren't the first to rearrange the story for their own convenience. Shakespeare did it. Who's to say the saga writers didn't?

I'm actually interested in how he has turned up as an ancestor as well..ie all the others in the lineup.

And I think I know what you mean
Brian Johnson. How can we disprove it anyway? I will just accept what Geni bloodlines say for now.