Bernhard III von Werl - Incorrect mother?

Started by Sharon Doubell on Sunday, September 13, 2020
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Alex Moes - what do you think?

cf Hermann II, count of Werl
HERMANN [II] von Werl (-after 14 Sep [1029])
so HERMANN [I] (-[985/86]) & GERBERGA
x NN
*HEINRICH *KONRAD *ADALBERT *BERNHARD

xx 1007 GODILA, widow of LOTHAR [III]

Sharon Doubell I agree NN should be the mother not Godilla.
The CN on Bernhard needs to be changed.

Alex,
you have it curated,
so only you can change it.

Alex, could you merge
NN van Bierum with
https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000100722351829
he is married with Sigardis NN.
and has 4 children
Ludolf, https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000012514100586
Lambert van Wierum van Peize, https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000151352474065
Hardbert van Bierum, Bisschop of Utrecht and
Leffart van Bierum are already there.

And just for anyone following the discussion, any Curator can edit any MP.

This profile NN has been smerged.

The mother of *HEINRICH *KONRAD *ADALBERT *BERNHARD is NOT Godilla - who was Hermann II, count of Werl 's 2nd wife.

Curator Note from Sharon Doubell (16/4/2021):
NN (first wife of Hermann - NOT Godila)
x HERMANN [II] von Werl (-after 14 Sep [1029])

  • HEINRICH *KONRAD *ADALBERT *BERNHARD

HERMANN [II] von Werl (-after 14 Sep [1029]). "Otto tercius…Romanorum imperator augustus" granted privileges to Kloster Oedingen founded by "matrona Gerberga…in comitatu Herimanni eius filii" to the monks of the Marienkapelle at Aachen by charter dated 18 May 1000[2971]. Thietmar names "Count Hermann son of Gerberga" when recording his dispute with Dietrich Bishop of Münster in 1016[2972]. Graf im Lochtropgau 997. Graf 1016/17. Vogt of Kloster Werden, until 1019. Graf im Dreingau 1019. Graf im Lerigau 1020. Graf von Werl 1024. "Herimanni comitis et filiorum eius Heinrici, Counradi, Athelberti, Bernhardi" witnessed a donation of property dated "Id Sep 1024" by "Hildigunda abbatissa de Gesike" and one dated "XVIII Kal Oct [1029]" by "Brun comes cum uxore sua Ida"[2973]. m [firstly] ---. [m secondly (1007) as her second husband, GODILA, widow of LOTHAR [III] von Walbeck Markgraf der Nordgau, daughter of WERNER [Graf von Rothenburg] & his wife --- (-1015). Thietmar names a "nobly born woman from the West…Godila" as wife of Lothar, naming her father Werner and specifying that her cousin was Wicfrid Bishop of Verdun[2974]. Thietmar records that Godila remained unmarried for four years after her husband died then married secondly "her relative Hermann"[2975]. Godila's second husband has been identified as Hermann [II] Graf von Werl[2976]. If this is correct she must have been his second wife as Thietmar records that "she was denied any hope of future offspring" as she was excommunicated for the marriage, her husband being "her relative"[2977].] Graf Hermann [II] & his [first] had four children:

i) HEINRICH von Werl (-after 1051). Thietmar names "Heinrich son of Count Hermann" when recording his dispute with Dietrich Bishop of Münster[2978]. "Herimanni comitis et filiorum eius Heinrici, Counradi, Athelberti, Bernhardi" witnessed a donation of property dated "Id Sep 1024" by "Hildigunda abbatissa de Gesike" and one dated "XVIII Kal Oct [1029]" by "Brun comes cum uxore sua Ida"[2979]. Graf [von Werl] 1024 and 1039. Vogt of Kloster Höddeken after 1051. Vogt of Paderborn Cathedral.

ii) KONRAD von Werl . "Herimanni comitis et filiorum eius Heinrici, Counradi, Athelberti, Bernhardi" witnessed a donation of property dated "Id Sep 1024" by "Hildigunda abbatissa de Gesike" and one dated "XVIII Kal Oct [1029]" by "Brun comes cum uxore sua Ida"[2980]. 1024.

iii) ADALBERT von Werl . "Herimanni comitis et filiorum eius Heinrici, Counradi, Athelberti, Bernhardi" witnessed a donation of property dated "Id Sep 1024" by "Hildigunda abbatissa de Gesike" and one dated "18 Kal Oct [1029]" by "Brun comes cum uxore sua Ida"[2981]. 1024.

iv) BERNHARD von Werl (-1066 or after). "Herimanni comitis et filiorum eius Heinrici, Counradi, Athelberti, Bernhardi" witnessed a donation of property dated "Id Sep 1024" by "Hildigunda abbatissa de Gesike" and one dated "XVIII Kal Oct [1029]" by "Brun comes cum uxore sua Ida"[2982]. Graf von Werl[-Arnsberg]. Vogt of Paderborn Cathedral 1024/66. Graf in Friesland 1031/1038. Graf im Threcwithigau 1058. [Graf im Dreingau 1059.] Vogt of Kloster Corvey 1065. m ---. The name of Bernhard's wife is not known. Graf Bernhard & his wife had three children: https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/SAXON%20NOBILITY.htm#HermannIIWerl...

The following childtren need to be moved to a mother they belong with according to primary sources: Count Werner of Walbeck, in the North March Dietrich von Walbeck Birgitta von Walbeck

and Rudolf II von Werl

I think undoing the smerges has restored them to their original mother, except for Rudolf - who I had to detach.

Godila, von Rothenburg

GODILA (-1015)
d/o Werner; cousin of Wicfrid Bishop of Verdun
x LOTHAR [III] Graf von Walbeck, Markgraf der Nordmark

  • WERNER *LOTHAR [IV] *BERTHOLD *DIETRICH

xx (1007) her relative, HERMANN [II] Graf von Werl (>14 Sep [1029])

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