Col. James Moore, Jr. - Moore query opened....

Started by Marvin Loyd Welborn on Sunday, September 6, 2020
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9/6/2020 at 8:58 PM

This Discussion is opened as a result of a Query from Miranda Frantz and suggested by Erica Howton. The Query is as follows:

Quote:
Managers of Col. James Moore, Jr.,
I am contacting you about this profile: Col. James Moore, Jr.
I am a descendant of Elizabeth Lightfoot Moore and would like to know more about her grandmother, Keowee (Bnu) Moore. Thank you in advance for any help you have to offer.
Sincerely,
Miranda Frantz
 Col. James Moore, Jr.

UnQuote.

I would indeed like to know more about Elizabeth Lightfoot Moore myself - I know nothing about her and not much on the Moore family either.
I found this profile: Elizabeth Lightfoot Yancey, Cheraw
Her father apparently was John Moore, Jr., Old Cheraw at Cheepoke Creek, West Dismal Swamp Cheraw 1450 Acre Grant.

As regards the addressees of the Query:

Miranda Frantz, No path found to Miranda Frantz.
Started family tree September 1, 2020.
She started the query by email, but has no tree and recently joined.

Erica Howton, 8th cousin once removed. We connect through the Welborn/Teague/Barnes/Lawson/Howton line
Isabelle Wellborn → Moses Teague, Sr. her father → Reverend Edward Teague his brother → Isabella ‘Lydia’ Barnes his daughter → Isabella Lucyanne Barnes her daughter → James Barnes, lll her son → Nancy Ellen Lawson his daughter → Randle Lawson her son → Gertrude Belle Howton-Harder his daughter → Frank Lawson ‘Nick’ Howton her son → Frank William Howton his son → Erica Howton

Private User, 10th cousin once removed. We connect through the Welborn/Davis/Pridgen/Pitchlynn/Folsom/Leavitt/ Horton/Baker/Blacker line.

Fred Olen Carlton, 9th cousin once removed. Connection through the Welborn/Smith/Houser/Moore/Carlton line.

Private User, 12th cousin once removed. Connection through Welborn/Younger/Nash/Jenkinson/Bullock/Julian/Erwin/Wilson/Means/Flinn/McCormick/Kirk/Verner/ line.

Private User, 10th cousin once removed. Connection through Welborn/Smith/Henley/Wooldridge/LaForce/Mosby/Gregory/Stith/Cutbirth/Pridgen/Jeans line.

Jason Fowler, 9th cousin once removed. Connection through Welborn/Smith/Houser/Moore/Hembree-Cheraw/Swofford/Tyson/Smith/Fowler line.

John Quentin Tucker, Jr., 12th cousin once removed. Connection through Welborn/Smith/Houser/Moore/Jones/Hamilton/Campbell/White/Sherill/Payne/Marshall/Hall/Tucker/ line.

{Whew!}

9/6/2020 at 9:46 PM

Firstly, Col. James Moore, Jr. is listed at a “Jr.” whereas his reported father is listed as Governor James Moore, Sr.. This may be a minor point, but one is listed as “O’Patrick” the other as simply “I” — perhaps this should just have the notation of (II).

The reason: a recent merge of two profiles:

——- most recent profile ———
James O 'Patrick Moore, Jr.
Gender:
Male
Birth:
circa 1682
Charleston, SC
Death:
March 03, 1724 (37-46)
Cape Fear. N. C
Immediate Family:
Son of Col. James Moore, I, Colonial Governor and Margaret Moore
Husband of Elizabeth Moore
Partner of Keowee (Bnu) Moore / Cheraw
Father of Jeru Moore; Elizabeth Caton; Margaret Beringer Sanders; James Moore, III; John Moore, Cheraw Grantee of Oyster Tang Branch; and Mary Hembree/Cheraw
Brother of Mary Lytle; Margaret Smith; Maurice Moore; Ann Davis; Roger (King Roger) Moore; Nathaniel Moore and Joseph Berringer Moore, Sr.
Half brother of Sir John Moore; Charles Moore; John Moore; Rebecca Moore and Jehu Moore
Col. James Moore, Jr.

——— old profile ——————
James Moore, II
Gender: Male
Birth: circa 1667 Charleston, SC
Death: 1740 (69-77) Cape Fear. N. C
Immediate Family:
Son of Col. James Moore, Colonial Governor and Margaret Moore

Husband of Elizabeth Moore and Keowee Moore / Cheraw of Pee Dee

Father of Jeru Moore; Elizabeth Caton; John Moore, Grantee of Oyster Tang Branch and Mary (Moore) Hembree / Old Cheraw's Dist.

Brother of Mary Lytle; Maurice Moore; Roger Moore; Nathaniel Moore; Joseph Berringer Moore, Sr.; Ann Davis and Margaret Smith

old: (Col. James Moore, Jr.)

9/6/2020 at 9:59 PM

James O 'Patrick Moore, Jr. - where is the O Patrick coming from? It’s too early for middle names. I’m reverting to the previous name as noted.

Thanks for stsrting the query! I know our connection but not this one. What can we find out?

9/6/2020 at 10:07 PM

From source -

https://www.carolana.com/Carolina/Governors/jmoorejr.html

James Moore, Jr.
Elected Governor of South Carolina Province 1719 to 1721

Many historians confuse this Governor James Moore with his father, James Moore, Sr., who was a member of the Charles Town Executive Council in 1685 and later elected President of the Executive Council and Acting Governor of Charles Town in 1700 to 1703.

——

So those should be the names.

Scottish descent, not Irish.

9/6/2020 at 10:10 PM

His grandfather.

Sir Rory (Roger) O’More

O'More married Jane, daughter of Sir Patrick Barnewall of Turvey, Donabate, County Dublin, and they had 2 sons and 4 daughters. Many historians believe he was the father of James Moore, Governor of the Province of Carolina and therefore an ancestor of American General Robert Howe.

Private User
9/7/2020 at 1:34 AM

I believe some of the profiles are being merged because of DNA confirmation - I would go with the new one if I were you. I have reason to believe Gov. Moore was the son of Nathaniel Moore, not Rory. Aside from being ancestors, these are important historical figures please do not make changes without a really good reason.

Private User
9/7/2020 at 1:39 AM

Gov. Moore was a grandfather, so personally, I'm all over it. Hoping to add more stories & info to his profile. Lots of history & drama around him his ancestors and descendants.

9/7/2020 at 1:42 AM

Do you mean Governor James Moore, Sr. was more likely the son of

Nathaniel Moore and therefore Rory’s grandson? Do you have a citation?

Private User
9/7/2020 at 1:50 AM

I believe the reason Colonial Gov James Moore i (Sr, aka #1) is not connecting genetically to Rory because Rory was his grandfather, not his father. Rory is of mega royal descent so it would be nice to get the DNA straightened out, which it won't be unless we can prove Gov. Moore,s parentage.The mother is correct.

Private User
9/7/2020 at 1:51 AM

I have some documentation on my tree on Ancestry yes that is the suggestion.

Private User
9/7/2020 at 9:57 AM

Erica, I think that may have done the trick, at least partly, as I noticed Rory's daughter Cecilia now has some DNA propagated to here file. We should keep researching, thought I think the now DNA will help sort it out. Gov. Moore, for those who come across this and don't know, was one of the most violent and brutal servants of the British Empire in Colonial America. Rory and his brother - in- law Patrick Sarsfield are both Irish national heroes for their role in the uprisings against Charles I of England.

9/7/2020 at 1:23 PM

Here's some info I've dug up today:

About the year 1685 James Moore, a grandson of Roger Moore, who was one of the leaders in the Irish Rebellion of 1641, removed from the Barbadoes to South Carolina, where he married Elizabeth, the only child of Sir John Yeamans, the first governor of Carolina, and who made the settlement of South Carolina.
P293 Biographical History of North Carolina From Colonial Times to the Present. Samuel A. Ashe, Editor-in-Chief, Vol II MCMV (1905)

...Colonel James Moore, the eldest son of Governor Moore, who pursued the same route as Barnwell until the Catawbas were reached; but from there he proceeded by the upper trading path through Salisbury and the Oconeechees to Torhunte; and a little later reinforcements were sent him under his brother. Major Maurice Moore,....
P.294, ibid.

On the death of his first wife Colonel Moore married Miss Porter, by whom he had three children. Judge Maurice Moore, General James Moore of the Revolution, and Rebecca, who became the wife of General John Ashe; and by his first wife he had a daughter, Elizabeth, who married Colonel Jones, and many of the prominent citizens of the Cape Fear are descended from him.
P297 ibid.
---------------------------

MAURICE MOORE, whose character is worthy of our esteem, was also from Brunswick.
Judge Moore was descended from an ancient Irish family of which the Marquis Drogheda is the present head.f His grandfather, Sir Nathaniel Moore, was Governor of Carolina (then including North and South Carolina) in 1705, and is referred to in the former part of this work.

James Moore married a daughter of Sir John Yeamans, who established the city of Charleston, and was Governor of the two Carolinas in 1670. Moore was Governor of the Carolinas in 1700 and in 1719. By Miss Yeamans he had ten children, from the second of whom, Maurice, the subject of this sketch is lineally descended.

P47. HISTORY OF NORTH CAROLINA From 1584 to 1851. By JOHN H. WHEELER LATE TREASURER OF THE STATE. vol I,1851.

John Yeamans, 1st Baronet? Sir John Yeamans, 1st Baronet

Apparently Margaret Moore (Berringer) Margaret Moore was somehow connected to John Yeamans (a daughter?) She is half-sibling to Ann Yeamans; Willoughby Yeamans; Robert Yeamans and George Yeamans.

9/7/2020 at 1:25 PM

James Moore, a grandson of Roger Moore...

P293 Biographical History of North Carolina From Colonial Times to the Present. Samuel A. Ashe, Editor-in-Chief, Vol II MCMV (1905)

9/7/2020 at 1:55 PM

We’ve made a lot of progress quickly, well done. Keep the anecdotes coming! Are the children looking correct?

And, what do we know about the Cheraw line?

9/7/2020 at 7:51 PM

Re: Cheraw. I'm still trying & learning about this, apparently an Indian name for an extinct group (tribe) of indigenous people in South Carolina at the time of the Moores. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheraw. I've not found any familial connections, yet.

However, on the Moores, some more:
From COLONIAL OFFICER AND HIS TIMES, 1754-1773. BY ALFRED MOORE WADDELL. 1890

Colonel Maurice Moore, of Brunswick on the Cape Fear, commanded these levies. He was the brother of Colonel James Moore, the hero of Nahuckc, and had recently become a citizen of the northern province. Their father, Governor James Moore, married the daughter of Sir John Yeamans, and Col Maurice Moore had assumed charge of the lands on the Cape Fear which his grandfather, the Baronet, had settled in 1665 and abandoned in 1690.

...Sir John Yeamans brought over a colony, and in 1665 settled it upon the site of the former one at the mouth of Town Creek, eight miles below Wilmington, on the west bank of the river. He received from the Lords Proprietors a grant for thirtty- two miles square, and was made the Governor of the colony. He remained there six years, and, in 1671, was made Governor of "Carteret County," as South Carolina was then called, to which place he went, taking his colony with him, and soon after founded Charleston, which was the name of the settlement he had left on Town Creek.

While residing there, James Moore, the grandson of the rebel Roger Moore, who had also come to America to seek his fortune, married the daughter of Yeamans, thus uniting the blood of the English loyalist and Irish rebel, and afterwards was also Governor of South Carolina.

The younger son of Governor James Moore, Maurice Moore, having come with his brother, Colonel James Moore, to suppress the Indian outbreaks in North Carolina in 1 7 1 1 , concluded that he would re-settle the Cape Fear, which had remained unoccupied ever since his grandfather's colony left it, and accordingly he returned there about 1723, and in 1725 laid out the town of Brunswick, about eight miles below the site of the original settlement, and sixteen miles below Wilmington. Two of his brothers, Roger and Nathaniel, came with him, as did many others.

(Pgs. 206-207, COLONIAL OFFICER AND HIS TIMES, 1754-1773. BY ALFRED MOORE WADDELL. 1890)

From SCHOOL HISTORY OF NORTH Carolina, From 1584 to 1879. By JOHN WHEELER MOORE, 1879.

...Colonel Maurice was brother to Colonel James Moore, and they were grandsons of Sir John Yeamans.

P.28, SCHOOL HISTORY OF NORTH Carolina, From 1584 to 1879. By JOHN WHEELER MOORE, 1879.

Early in 1777 the North Carolina Continentals were ordered to the support of General Washington in the North. Four other Continental battalions had been raised, and they were soon to acquire a bloody distinction in the war. General James Moore and his brother, Judge Maurice Moore, both died on the same day, in the same house, in Wilmington, and the son-in-law of the latter, Colonel Francis Nash, was made Brigadier General in place of General Moore.

P.75, ibid

Private User
9/8/2020 at 8:04 AM

I misstated the history of Patrick Sarsfield it was the Jacobite wars a little later. His brother William's wife was the daugjhter of one of Charles II's lovers by another man while he was away. There are soap opera plots galore around all of this, Nice to get the ancestry tighter. it is the history of the Irish rebel clans of O'moore s MacGreogors and O'Neills , among other things. Insubordinate Welsh chieftains, English royal scandals. the list goes on.

Private User
9/8/2020 at 8:08 AM

Here in the Americas quite a bit of wrongheadedness politically from some of the major figures. but who am I to say? Anyway facts is facts I find it gripping and try not to be judgmental, just learn.

Private User
9/8/2020 at 8:17 AM

this is mine I hope this works. can I edit or delete posts on here?https://www.geni.com/path/Jeffrey-Winter+is+related+to+Governor-Jam...

9/8/2020 at 1:07 PM

Hello CousinPrivate User

Jeffrey G Winter is your 9th cousin once removed.
Marvin Loyd Welborn → Geneva Allene Welborn (Smith) your mother → Henry Loyd Smith, R1b1a2a1a1b her father → Edgar Jackson Smith his father → Margaret Jane Smith (Houser) his mother → Susannah Houser her mother → Nimrod Moore her father → James Moore his father → Gulley Moore his father → Jeru Moore his father → Col. James Moore, Jr. his father [Then] → Mary Lytle his sister → Elizabeth Patterson her daughter → Elizabeth Espy her daughter → Martha Mitchell her daughter → Eliza Winter her daughter → James Mitchell Winter her son → Samuel Hale Winter his son → Sidney Graham Winter his son → <private> Winter his son → Jeffrey G Winter his son

Private User
9/8/2020 at 2:01 PM

need a "like" button on here. so much fun and rewarding sometimes. greetings cousins!

9/8/2020 at 3:27 PM

I happen to like the “sideways” paths on Geni also.

Our bloodline (12 x 2) goes through Puritans https://www.geni.com/path/Erica-Howton+is+related+to+Jeffrey-Winter...

But we’re also - Jeffrey G Winter is your third great uncle's third cousin four times removed. https://www.geni.com/path/Erica-Howton+is+related+to+Jeffrey-Winter... - North Carolina !

Marvin Loyd Welborn The Cheraw are still very much alive & well,

Followimg is from The Old Cheraw Tribal Historian of Mississippi

The Oyster Tang Moore is connected to the line that goes down through the Yancey group and are atDna vetted to existing Old Cheraw from Cheraw, MS. The Rogers of this group enrolled as Cherokee once in OK and prior to that, were on a land deed from Old Cheraws' District adjacent to the Chief of Churrah as it was written, Thomas Parker, for their bounty lands as seen up by Keaton, etc all, in 1767 as named Old Cheraws' District, by the DC Legislature. This line did not go extinct like the different group of Saura.

The ones with Choctaw Bill in the War of 1812 , the ones in Cheraw. Co, and the ones enrolling as Cheraw in Mt Tabor (Texas) were not extinct nor are their Cooper Roll named descendants (Isom Pounds) nor the Lott Fayard Indian School descendants.

We know this Moore connection from a hired professional generic genealogist Tushanna Corkern, from Cheraw, MS. who works with Ce Ce Moore who is an American genetic genealogist who has appeared as a guest on many TV shows and as a consultant on others such as Finding Your Roots. She has helped law enforcement agencies in identifying suspects in over 50 cold cases in one year using DNA and genetic genealogy

9/8/2020 at 7:01 PM

Linda (Carr) Buchholz, Kit # FW864102C1, thanks for your input into this discussion. As I stated, I am learning, and the only thing I'd found was a Wiki article which stated the particular tribe was extinct.

Linda Carr Buchholz, Kit # FW864102C1 is your 9th cousin twice removed.
Marvin Loyd Welborn   → Henry Marvin Welborn my father → Emma Corine Welborn (Bombard) his mother → Emma Elizabeth Free / Bombard her mother → Isabelle Bynum her mother → Robert W Bynum her father → Mark Bynum his father → William Bynum, III his father → William Bynum, II his father → Mary Bynum (Fort) his mother → George Fort her brother → Agatha Sullivan his daughter → John Sullivan, of Duplin Co. her son → Thomas Sullivan his son → Ezekiel Sullivan of Hawkins TN his son → John Thomas Sullivan his son → Mary "Polly" Eidson his daughter → Joseph E Eidson her son → Mellie Ann (Rogers) Wilson his daughter → Bessie Lee (Wilson) Carr her daughter → Theodore "Ted" Andoe Carr her son → Linda Carr Buchholz, Kit # FW864102C1 his daughter

9/8/2020 at 7:45 PM

Marvin Loyd Welborn You actually have multiple paths to Marvin Loyd Welborn, because she’s my Barnes cousin, which has excellent genealogy names. I’m from Deaf John Barnes & she’s from the more normal Barnes sister, Considering other brothers included Handsome Jim and Murdered Jehu. Anyways you’d get to them through our Teagues. Who supposedly from ancient Irish kings but I forgot which one.

9/8/2020 at 7:45 PM

(Meant to Linda - above)

9/8/2020 at 7:48 PM

Linda (Carr) Buchholz, Kit # FW864102C1 so glad you weighed in. Do you have anything on how Elizabeth Lightfoot Yancey, Cheraw came to be? I know there’s been a lot of study.

9/9/2020 at 9:30 AM

Thank you! Lots of good information! I was particularly interested in the Cheraw information concerning the Yancey line. I appreciate you all sharing your research!

From our Tribal Historian

Yes, we had a group chromosome vetted signature SNP on the Moore told to us by our hired genetic genealogist, but in reverification efforts we learned of the pike up of the Lightfoot in half cousin matches that corelated to our other known Lightfoot SNP just further back at this level.

That is what made for the birth name of this former BNU. Working backwards from early Mississipian immigrants out of the Chowan River area into north MS was a four way cousin matching saga that unfolded over a number of years. We knew this person had Lightfoot. It was undeniable. We were told by experts they had Moore.

The Oyster Tang group were isolated enough with enough distant cousins participants with only a hand full of known commons into a small area of MS from an isolated group that matched to large numbers already in know pile ups.

Yes, it took years to figure out.

9/10/2020 at 3:44 AM

I hate to show my ignorance but what does Grantee Oyster Tang Branch mean? Is that the same as Oyster Point in Charleston?

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