רבי משה בן ישראל איסרליש, הרמ״א, בעל ה״מפה״ - RaMA-descendant of Moreinu Rabbi Joseph ben Solomon Trabotto Colon, Traboto?

I think he was connected through an early Luria, but the connection was severed last year.

Private User
I don"t remember that they were linked, I would be very happy if you could direct me where the disconnection was made and by whom, because the "rama" was certainly his descendant

Connection isn't currently severed.

If you do an ancestor report - https://www.geni.com/list/ancestors/3381870#12 - you'll see R Colon.

I'm not sure that the generations all make sense in that tree though. I'm pretty sure some of R Colon's descendents appear to be born centuries before him...

Private User
You're right
The algorithm resets once every few days, yesterday showed the connection through the wife of the "rem"a now shows the connection between the rema and rabbi colon
https://www.geni.com/path/Rabbi-Moses-Isserles-RaMA-%D7%94%D7%A8%D7...

I agree with Jeremy Richard Lichtman the way the tree is now is untenable, requiring ten re-generations in 100 years. It would be possible for the construction to work if Chava Shrentzel is made the daughter of Rabbi Eliezer Treves [of Schlezstadt], [ABD Schlezstadt] rather than of Rabbi Eliezer (Leizer) Treves, requiring 8 re-generations in 100 years (still tight, but physically possible). Could it be there is an error as to which Eliezer Treves is the father of Khave Treves?

The problem is with the mother of Rabbi Eliezer Treves d. 1490 who is called "Bat Gershon Treves" on Geni Bat Gershon Treves

I disconnected her. She cannot be the daughter of the Gershon Treves who married the daughter of the Maharik Joseph Colon who died around 1490.

In other words Rabbi Eliezer Treves who died 1490 cannot be the great-grandson of the Maharik who also died around 1490.

Most likely this Bat Gershon Treves is a mistake. Is there any real source for her?

I have worked pretty hard on "my" branch of decent from the Maharik, via his daughter who married Abba Mari Chalfan, and have added actual sources. wife, Abba Mari Chalfan. It would be nice if the other branches did the same thing.

Randy Schoenberg
I know you worked hard on this branch, I also worked on it. I am a descendant of the Maharik from another branch, and only this week I read that the rema wrote that he is also a descendant of him.
Because I am a descendant of the rema , his sister and his brother I wanted to know how the rema and his family are his descendants
When the rema wrote that he a descendant of the Maharik refers to the answer that the rema answered to someone and wrote that he was quoting the Maharik who is his descendant, he did not write how.
I will try to look for more information

Randy Schoenberg
I attach the connection between Maharik and me. If I am not mistaken, you too are connected to this branch when we both connect to it through different branches.

Since I only learned in the last few days that the "rema" and his family are also his descendant (and I am convinced that the "rema" was not wrong), and I have not checked this branch never, I would be happy if you could explain to me exactly where the problem is, and I will try to find information

https://www.geni.com/path/haim-wartski-HaCohen+is+related+to+Morein...

I wish there were a better source for Yechiel Chalfan, Hakadosh of Vienna to show why they think he is the son of Rabbi Dr. Eliyahu Menachem Chalfan, of Venice

I am also suspicious of the connection of Rabbi Eliezer Ashkenazi, ABD Posen, "Maasei Hashem". The Jewish Encyclopedia says "Though of a German family (according to some, the relative of Joseph Colon; see Marco Mortara, Indice Alfabetico, s.v.)" Not really enough to show that Eliyahu Chalfan is his father.

Randy Schoenberg
I will try to search for information (I do not have a subscription, so it is difficult to find information), when I was working on this branch, I do not remember that his name was Hakadosh of Vienna, I think someone added it.

Regarding Rabbi Eliezer Ashkenazi (Chalfan), ABD Posen, "Maasei Hashem" by geni is my great uncle, I only research about my great grandfathers, so I do not know his name

Regarding the connection between rema and maharik I would be happy if I get an explanation of where the problem is, if I understand, I will try to find information (as I wrote, I am convinced that rema was not wrong)

Randy Schoenberg
I understand why you are not convinced about Rabbi Eliezer Ashkenazi (Chalfan), ABD Posen, "Maasei Hashem" . I have now read quickly that it is assumed that he is a relative of the Maharik,It is not written that he is a descendant of him, I assume there is a mistake here

I wonder if what you read about the Rema was a mistake, because in the Rema's collection of Responsa, number 56 is actually by Eliyahu Chalfan who refers to his (Eliyahu's) grandfather the Maharik. Someone could have read the Chalfan Responsa and thought it was by the Rema, who published it with his own work.

See https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=11879&st=&pgnum=2...

I am sure you can read it better than I can. I am relying on others who read it for me.

Ok. I cut off Rabbi Eliezer Ashkenazi, ABD Posen, "Maasei Hashem"

Randy Schoenberg
I read that rema gave an answer to someone (I will look for this passage) and rema said he was quoting hamarik who is (the rema) his direct descendant

If anyone has a subscription to ozar hachocma he will be able easily find the information

Randy Schoenberg
I just now read thoroughly through the whole page, and neither - Rabbi Eliyuhoo Menachem Chalfan nor the RM"A - claim themselves to be descendants of the Maharrick on "that" page.
I'll try to look through the pages nearby.
Thanks for letting me be, part of the conversation.

מוהר"ר חיים מאיר אל'יהו Schechter/Shefer

Rabbi Eliyuhoo Menachem Chalfan
Was not a descendant of the Maharrick but was the husband of his daughter
Rabbi Dr. Eliyahu Menachem Chalfan, of Venice
.
Regarding "rama", as I wrote, in one of his answers he wrote that he quotes (and will write in Hebrew)
אבי זקני
When a person expresses himself in this sentence, he means that he is a direct descendant
Until this week, I did"nt know that there was a family connection between them
I'll try this weekend to find out where I read it.

Thanks for the update Randy Schoenberg I am interested in the connection between Venice and the Posen region which Maasei Hashem exemplifies.

I am unclear on a couple of things from the JE article and request further opinion: "Though of a German family...he was probably born in the Levant, and received his Talmudic education under Joseph Taitazak in Salonica...He may be called the last survivor of a most brilliant epoch in the history of the Sephardim." (https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/1963-ashkenazi-eliezer-laze...). Meanwhile there is evidence on the gravestone of Isaac Chalfan that the family was expelled from France in the late 14th or early 15th (https://www.geni.com/photo/view?album_type=photos_of_me&id=6000...) and (https://www.geni.com/photo/view?album_type=photos_of_me&id=6000...).

1) Is it now generally acceoted that Maasei Hashem was born in Venice (as were apparently his father Eliayu Chalfan; the grandfather Abba Mari seems to have been born either in Venice or France, or somewhere between France and Venice). Is the JE's 'probably born in the Levant' now confirmed to be erroneous?

2) I'm not sure I follow how Maasei Hashem could be of a German family and yet also the last survivor of a 'most brilliant epoch in the history of the Sephardim' and yet also that the Chalfans were expelled from France circa 1394? Is is generally accepted that the family was a Tzarfati rather than an Ashkenazi one? This would correspond to the intermarriage into the Joseph Trabotto family which seems also to have fled from France during the same expulsion, along with the Treves family. If this Tzarfatic ancestry is accurate, why is the surname Ashekenazi still being used for only this branch of the family (the other branch remains Chalfan)?

If these questions are still unanswerable, then I pose them here for future reference.

Salomon Klaczko, Berlin comments: I am a descendant of Reizel Abba Mari, the mother of my ancestor. Reb Jehiel Israel Eizes, ABD in Brest and Rabbi in Pinsk, Belarus *1625-1720. Hoewver, I can not found the connection to the Abba Mari, which seems to have been born either in Venice or France, or somewhere between France and Venice), mentioned by Adam Cherson. May be somebody can me help to understand it.

Your discussion linked my interest also to Moreinu Rabbi Joseph Trabotto Colon. In Spain and Latin America the name Colon is assumed to be Jewish, since the navigator and discoverer of America, known in the USA as Columbus, is known there ONLY as CRISTÓBAL COLÓN. Indeed, Simon Wiesental, the founder of the Wiener Dokumentations-Zenter, wrote a book on Columbus/COLON as a Jew. In your discussion, this name, Colon, appears repeatedly. Has somebody discovered a link between Cristobal Colón and the other Colons of your genealogy? One theory assumes he was a Genovese, i.e. from a rival port from Venice, and the Italians are sure, he was a Genovese. Other theories assume he was from Barcelona, Catalunya. But I never tried to look in Geni to the name Columbus.