Tudur Mawr ap Cadell - duplicate Profile?

One of these is from Steven Mitchell Ferry -- and he is careful about duplicates, but it's easy to trip over things in the Welsh tree.

So let's ask him to look at them.

thanks!

Same, different spellings,

same son, different years,
Gwyn ap Tewdwr
Gwyn ap Tewdwr

Funny fact, the earliest created is born ca. 16 years before his father, no much effort to make it right there, ain't it...

Private User -- the spellings are irrelevant; there are quite a number of legitimate variants.

But one of the problems in the Welsh tree is that often there are strings of people with the same names who are not the same people.

It's a very difficult piece of the Tree.

That is why I am not just merging, until I let the Steven, who does not enter things into the Welsh tree without taking a lot of care, look at them.

And if they are the same we will merge them.

And if they are not I'll lock them down and add notes.

Oh! And dates!

The Welsh Genealogies do not contain dates; most of the ones you see in that Tree, other than major profiles known in the chronologies, are estimates. All over the board. So when they get merged the dates are nuts, lots of the time -- and not necessarily any of them right.

The source that Steven is working with constructs dates based on historical evidence in land contracts and such -- so usually Steven's dates are more reliable.

But still guesses.

Just more educated guesses.

It appeared to me that they are one and the same, so I merged. But that does leave us with the problem of the wife of Tewdwr. I do not chart a wife for him, and date wise Gwenllian ferch Gwyn does not appear to be age appropriate. You would expect the mother of Tewdwr's children to be born near c. 1030. That would make her father, Gwyn ap Rhydderch, about 65 at her birth, which is highly unlikely. Does Bartrum deal with her Anne?

I will go look.

Bartrum does not state a wife for Tewdwr Mawr; nor does Gwenllian ferch Gwyn appear in the Welsh Genealogies as the daughter of Gywn ap Rhydderch.

So in short, the main source gives no evidence for her at all.

The source given for her in the Geni profile is a web tree.

I don't think she was there.

I have Tudur Mawr ap Cadell as my 28th great grandfather and Gwyn ap Tudur as my second cousin 27 times removed.

I surmised as much. Do with her as you wish. Mr. Wellborn, does this answer your question satisfactorily ?

Still problem with estimation, and locked profile, not much basic users can do.
Tudur Mawr ap Cadell father listed as dead 993, long before his estimated birth.

Cadell ab Einion

Done.

Thanks, Marvin Loyd Welborn!

Thanks all. Sorry for the kerfuffle. I’ll have to check back and see how ‘my’ tree has changed.

Please don't apologize. The Welsh tree is a very long term project -- we don't see everything, so if any users come across stuff they need fixed, we leave whatever piece of the project we are working on and go look at that.

It's quite interesting, really.

I'm showing Tudur Mawr ap Cadell, c1015 (no known death date) and no listed spouse.
His father: Cadell ap Einion, c980 & mother Elinor Gwerystan. It can be confusing.Sometimes, sons take their father's last name as their first, effectively switching the names around. Must have driven family members crazy, among the often large families. Good luck1

Janet Yvonne Correll — it isn’t confusing if you understand the system. No one has a last name. We use the last name slots because that’s the closest we can come to what is going on.

“Ap” (or “ab,” before a vowel) means “son of.”

“Ferch” or “verch” means “daughter of.”

There are also nicknames (in the middle name field), which help to tell people apart.

Tudur Mawr ap Cadell means “Tudur the Great, the son of Cadell.” His father is Cadell, the son of Einion; his mother is Elinor, the daughter of Gwerystan.

Tudur Mawr ap Cadell is your 25th great grandfather.