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Blue Sky "Mary" Cornstalk - https://thecaseforblueskyandparkeradkins.com/ The REAL Story

Started by Dorene Private User on Monday, June 29, 2020
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Can you post links here?

The profiles are locked, even on profiles I manage and we are not allowed to connect. That's the reason we are where we are.

This article is restricted access, maybe someone can try.

https://www.anb.org/view/10.1093/anb/9780198606697.001.0001/anb-978...

It is fine to post a link to the first public ancestor above each of them on the line you want us to use as proof.

Perfectly fine......

I'm wondering what the problem is, perhaps someone can enlighten me....why is it you doubt the veracity of Federally enrolled, direct-descendant cousins that acknowledge our relationships and recognize those persons from whom my family is descended, namely Bluesky Cornstalk and Peter Cornstalk?

John Sugden was incorrect about Peter Cornstlalk's not being the son of Chief Cornstalk. Peter Cornstalk was the singer of treaties and was an interpreter. He is very well documented as being the son of Cornstalk (Hokolesqua) and the DNA proves that he was the son of Cornstalk.

Erica Howton, I've so far been able to cite two siblings for Cornstalk:

"Seventeen Maquachake families under Kishanosity, Oweeconne, and Nimwha, Cornstalk's brother, moved to Coshocton and, in White Eyes' words, 'became the same people.' The Maquachake division remained the most inclined to peace throughout the war. Cornstalk's sister Nonhelema, the 'Grenadier Squaw,' consistently supported the American cause."

  • Calloway, Colin G. "'We Have Always Been the Frontier': The American Revolution in Shawnee Country." American Indian Quarterly 16, no. 1 (1992): 39-52. Accessed August 8, 2021. doi:10.2307/1185604.

(Sorry for typing an ethnic slur in the excerpt; it's in the original.)

We also get a precise death date for Nimwha (or Munseeka) Cornstalk: 1780. I'll update it on his profile.

I'd like to cite the relationship between Cornstalk, Nimwha, and Nonhelema "The Grenadier Squaw" Cornstalk, but do we have the parents confirmed? Cornstalk's "About" says no, but parents are showing.

So, the links?

I guess I am confused as to why this is still being denied. Someone in the discussion mentioned Estes. She used Carlyle for her own studies and credits him
As being a leader In Native American records. He states it is true about bluesky. We adkins all match through triangulation on gedmatch to silverheels and to bluejackets. CRT is big right now. They say there are limited documentation of cultures and we have been taught what book editors want us to know. It’s time you start listening to federal tribe members (Carlyle) and oral tradition. Dorene has supplied you with dna, sources on her blog, and interviews. Enough is enough!!!! Stop oppressing our adkins!!!!

Ashley Odell, Cornstalk also has a very well documented brother, Chief Silverheels :).

Amen, Cousin Tammy!

Are there not those links on Geni, then? I'm confused at the strange replies.

Dorene Private User -- I only mentioned those two because I had citations for them. I'll be sure to add citations for all the other relatives I can find. :) And I'll be starting with trying to cite their parents, so we can lock those in so their children don't lose them...do we have a link to info about the speech mentioned in Cornstalk's "About," where he mentioned his father being White Fish?

Sharon Doubell, I guess you're arriving to the discussion a little later than some of the participants. May I point you to the prior discussions regarding Bluesky. There are several discussions over several years. That will help get you up to speed and give you a good understanding of events. The pertinent profiles are discussed there too :).

Well, Tammy, the big problem is that so far no one has yet produced one scintilla of evidence that "Bluesky daughter of Cornstalk" ever existed - not even so much as a written-down account of the previously-mentioned "oral history" of her undertaking a peace mission to General Lewis. (One would think *that* wouldn't be too difficult to find, if anyone had ever bothered to write it down!)

Mentioning Roberta Estes brings up the curious detail that she looked into her own ancestral background...and found that while she *did* have traces of Native ancestry, it was *not* on the line that "family oral tradition" had always confidently asserted - but on a line that no one had previously suspected.

Tunnel-vision focus on one and only one line may lead to positive results...or frustration. At 10 generations back there is a theoretical maximum of 1024 ancestors (it gets way worse real fast beyond that) - and which one(s) have what you're looking for? (Cousin-marriage can reduce the number by half or more, but that's still a fair few ancestors to be checking out.)

Thank you, Ashely Odell, I was just adding him to the list :).

There are no internet links that I am aware of regarding the mention of White Fish's being Cornstalk's father. He mentioned him several times. I own several of the books and journals where this was mentioned. There is more than one mention than the speech I believe you are referring to. There are also more mentions in the records of the Moravians.

Has Roberta Estes looked at Dorene’s blog and offered any comments?

Dorene, I've read these, but they all seem to go nowhere. It's pretty simple to demonstrate if you have the profiles documented on Geni. I don't understand why you aren't posting a link to these lines that prove the descent you want shown on Geni.

The first public ancestor of these two who have tested is pretty straightforward to ask for if you're basing proof on their DNA?

Maven B. Helms, I have to correct you...My family NEVER made mention of Bluesky's undertaking a peace mission for Lewis...that's something that Erica posted from some other family's tree that is not related to this family.

Erica, why isn't Carlyle Hinshaw's analysis and opinion good enough???

Dorene Private User, if you have a book's info (title, author, publication date, etc.) and the page numbers for the information, and it's from a reputable publisher, we can use that.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Shawnee-45 shows him with no known parents, siblings or wives, & lists 3 sons (not including Peter)

His birth year is a rough estimate based on his assumed age when he does appear on records.

In a speech given 11 October 1775 by Hokolesqua to the Shawnee, he stated that in response to a request by Col. Stephen, "my father, the Whitefish, and myself went through the towns and hunted up the horses...."[1]

Sugden questions the validity of this document.[2]

Hokolesqua was well known to the Moravian Missionaries who in their records indicated that he was either the son of grandson of the Shawnee Chief Paxinosa. [3]

  • 1. Vine Deloria, Raymond J. DeMallie, Documents of the American Indian Diplomacy, Treaties, Agreements and Conventions 1775-1907. Vol 1, (University of Oklahoma Press: 1999) 58.
  • 2. Sugden, American National Biography, 1999, p ??
  • 3. Sugden, John. Cornstalk, in American National Biography, Oxford University Press,1999. access needed

Roberta Estes is a genetic DNA expert with an international reputation. Wouldn’t you want her assessment?

I didn’t post the citation about the peace treaty. I did copy it again.

[This message has been hidden until it can be reviewed by an administrator.]

Oh, no, sorry, Erica if that was confusing, I was talking about the mention of another family who has Bluesky as being at a peace treaty that you posted on the other conversation from yesterday.

That's called an ad hominem argument, Tammy.

You do not post any evidence when asked for it, and instead attack people personally for asking for it?

Roberta Estes is a genetic DNA expert with an international reputation. Wouldn’t you want her assessment?

No, and I write about why extensively on my blog.

Why isn't Carlyle Hinshaw's recognition of the relationships endorsement good enough? Why isn't Bobby Bluejacket's recognition of the relationships and endorsement good enough? Why isn't Dennis Bluejacket's recognition of the relationships and endorsement good enough?

Sharon, there is a plethora of evidence. I continue to provide it and it never seems to be enough or in the format you want. I don't know that it ever will be enough to satisfy. Sad...

So we shouldn't expect to see these two profiles' lines - even though they are the root of your DNA proof?

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