Blue Sky "Mary" Cornstalk - https://thecaseforblueskyandparkeradkins.com/ The REAL Story

The bottom line is that *you have to prove* that Cornstalk had a daughter who was known as "Bluesky", and you have to prove it with hard primary documentation (mention in a charter or treaty, for instance). It's *your* claim,, proof is up to *you*.

I know all too well that "oral tradition" isn't worth the paper it isn't written on, without confirming hard documentation. Lots of people still believe the romantic fiction about "Lady Grace O'Neil" - who was actually plain Grace Neale from Northamptonshire (and my nth great-aunt). And I *was* rather disappointed to learn that my paternal grandmother's paternal grandmother wasn't a Custis, as she had always maintained - she was a Cutler. Close, but no cigar. On the other hand, she *was* a wrong-side-of-the-blanket descendant of Col. Edmund Scarburgh, and if I had continued blindly hunting Custises, I would never have found that out.

As for DNA studies, well...there *are* companies who will sell naive customers a bill of goods about their "Native ancestry" which isn't any such thing - because all they have done is compare results with other customers who claim Native ancestry (and who may be wrong).

Interestingly, Roberta Estes, a well-known researcher and blog publisher, explored her own roots and came to the surprising conclusion that yes she did have traces of Native ancestry - but it *wasn't* on the line that family "oral tradition" had confidently asserted was the source, and actually came from a line that no one had previously suspected.

Its pretty bold that anyone with no known Native ancestry would claim oral traditions aren't worth anything . Do any of the people here arguing with descendants actually have this Adkins line?

That's neither here nor there, Renee. Facts are facts and fiction is fiction, regardless of who is or isn't related to whom.

The rest of us are still waiting for proof that Cornstalk had a daughter called "Bluesky" - just saying so doesn't make it so.

It should further be noted that there has been a major change in this "family tradition" - and very recently. The original claim was that a son "Littleberry" of Parker Adkins was of Native ancestry - his unusual name was taken to be evidence, though it also turns out to be a very rare English surname (and by that time the colonists were into using surnames as first names just like back home in England). Charity, being next in birth order, soon got swept into the story.

BUT, until mtDNA evidence explicitly spelled out that Charity and Keziah *had* to be full sisters with the same mother (yes the results *are* obtainable if you know where to look) - Keziah was *never before* claimed to share "Native" ancestry.

And the *ONLY* "evidence" that their shared haplotype (H3b1b1) was anything but European comes from a company that...well, let's just say they take their customers' say-so as "proof" and never cross-check.

Are you a Blue sky descendant? Why are you here to argue about it? Why do you even care so much? Let it be.

Renee, you're not answering any of the posed questions and you are not helping.

The *very first thing* that must be proven, before any other considerations enter into it, is that this "Bluesky" person *really did exist*. And for that, it is necessary to show that she was named, and her relationship to Cornstalk mentioned, on some kind of contemporary document.

And everyone on the "Pro" side has been dancing around this obstacle and throwing up clouds of distraction, including "Are you related? If not, why do you bother?"

One Oral history says Blue sky took a trip from her home OH, thru WV to meet General Lewis with a delegation of piece. she was made a Chief going thru Lewisburg WV back to Point Pleasant to try making piece a yr or 2 before the battle of Point Pleasant ? was her English given name Margret ? this oral history comes from the family of John Wood. just wanted to share hope they get proof they need...

You answered none of my questions either. All of the information has been provided for you by Dorene and Tina.

"That’s peer review."

100% agree. This is why I use Geni...

To vet and compare and confirm. Until we can do that, it has to be worked on offsite

I have a (two times great??? I don't recall the generation) Lou Iney Cornstalk but have not added her here because i have nothing to go on until I dig in with my DNA matches and for now, that remains on hold

:)

Renee Butler, thank you for chiming in. I don't know what other proof is necessary. I've provided a link to written proof. I have provided extensive DNA evidence. As far as Cornstalk's being a historical notable...I don't see the profiles for Tecumseh or Chief Silverheels' being locked.

Hi, Erica, as far as the documentation that I cited on the other conversation, Shutz is noted as being an authority on his profile. Same wording, same source. Bluesky IS listed as a daughter of Chief Cornstalk. I quote from Chief Cornstalk's Geni profile:

"The parents of Hokolesqua, known as Cornstalk, are unknown. He said in a speech that his father was White Fish, a Shawnee man. The Moravian Missionaries say he was the son or grandson of Paxinosa. In any case he was not the son of anyone named Opeechan Stream ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Schutz notes that Cornstalk’s ‘siblings were Nonhelema ( "grenadier Squaw"; Catherine), Silverheels, and Nimwha. Some say his father was Paxinosa, ‘Hard Striker’ (not the father of Tecumseh as some think in error, but a well-known Pennsylvania Shawnee chief). Some of his children that have been mentioned are Oceano, Elinipso (Elinipisco, Elinispisco Nipseko), Aracroma (The Aracroma legend, married Boiling Baker), Greenbrier (name from the Greenbrier area of the Kanawha River?), Bluesky, Wynepuechiska (Peter), Wissecapoway, Piaserka (The Wolf). Other names mentioned are Mary, Elizabeth, Esther, Peter, Nern-Pe-Nes-Quah. Keigh-taugh-quah. Elizabeth See was a white captive Cornstalk married prior to her repatriation. Cornstalk is said to have been born in western Pennsylvania at least by 1720, but some say 1708 or 1710, and moved with his family when he was about 10 to Ohio.

http://shawnee-bluejacket.com/chiefs.html "

The profile for Hokolesqua, Sachem Cornstalk has been poly-merged at least 45 times. Determining who posted what in the Overview and when is not a straightforward task, because merged-in information doesn't tend to show up as "revisions".

Also, the Overview is a place for analysis, discussion, and alternate interpretations. It is *NOT* an authoritative source in and of itself.

Googling the blog and seeing the participants' charts of matches to the named Bluejacket kits shows me that there is a participant named White who matched most of the Bluejacket kits in the same way, same chrome and segment on chrome 8 and the visual lines shows the triangulation easily there; but, a a half match generation cM level back before the 10th generation and it would then need to be put to the segments ap in Tier One to ferret out the common ancestry with those matching in the same way by clicking on the 10,000 kit comparison option. Then the work begins to contact the triangulators in the same way and hope some of the participating matchers can and will work together to find out who was the MRCA as it is clear that Bluejackets could be matching to the White named pariticipant in a way that is not via the Blue Sky connection as MRCA. What would help is to run that 8th chrome segment where there is a pile up and put it into the Segments app and do the leg work to connect to the matching cousins there and also run that particular chrome on the Admixture Euro Genes Ap and see if any native is common there for the Bluejacket matchers and the White named participant. It could be replicated except that the gedcom kit numbers are obscured. The other idea would be to use many more Bluejacket kits and make sure they are paper vetted. Unless you get about 50 people to compare, the whole genomic picture is going to be sparse; but, I can say that there sure should be some 7.0 and higher matches on the 1 - 22 chromes if there was a less than 10 generation common and I can not see any cM of that standard as you would expect in half cousins even, at 7 gens back max. The matches all look like they are in the 15oo era and the ativism shows up with a few on the X or the 23rd chrome where a few 8 cM are "Sticky Gene" obvious, but the X is back at the 1500 era or earlier so that would also not be helpful to a generational common that is in the range of the Cornstalks. There should be a few Cornstalk kits in the media section of some of the Bear Clan participants and those would be of use to put into a large batch group chromosome browser. It is interesting that when there is a common, it is absolutely obvious and usually it shows up on a group batch run of say 15 kits but sometimes less and sometimes more; just depends on what shows up on the individual snippets of the testing results per participant since you are paying a few hundred dollars for what amounts to 1/32 of a total genomic picture of what it is that you could have received. That is why group chromosome work is needed. That is why you need to set the Tier One comparison at the 10,000 participant level and dig into what is making a prominent number kin to each other and take into account all the endogamy that exists, if any. When doing ISOGG Standard atDna work, it is needed that the results that are public are able to be revetted. That is why Gedcom now has trees and within it, the ability to confer back and forth with the project based parties claiming descent from a common. It requires large numbers to determine the matches back beyond gen 6 to 10th gen.

The whole problem is a combination of "rice on the chessboard" (1 +2 + 4 + 8 + 16 +32 +64 + 128 + 256 + 512 + 1024 + 2048 + 4096....) and infinite reshuffling and dealing from infinite decks of cards. How much information you get from each ancestor is basically "luck of the draw".

That link has this: 1 “The Greatest Travellers in America”: The Shawnee Diaspora, 1600–1725
1 “The Greatest Travellers in America”: The Shawnee Diaspora, 1600–1725 (pp. 13-41)
“They are Stout, Bold, Cunning, and the greatest Travellers in America.”¹

Thus Edmond Atkin, a seasoned British Indian trader and the future superintendent of Indian affairs, described Shawnees in 1754. Like other colonists, Atkin was baffled by the Shawnees. Since the late seventeenth century, seemingly countless bands of these people had crisscrossed the eastern third of North America, turning up now on the lower Mississippi River, next in Charles Town, Carolina, then on the streets of Albany, New York. Equally baffled by such mobility and dispersal, generations of subsequent scholars condemned the “sudden appearances and disappearances” of the Shawnees as...

David Cremeans. I was away yesterday.

Unfortunately, you apparently do not have all of the pieces of the puzzle nor all of the facts. I am sorry, but your analysis is not correct. All of the lines have been fully vetted by Carlyle Hinshaw, a Federally enrolled Shawnee and Cherokee tribal member and genetic genealogist of note as I mentioned in another conversation.

You state that you believe the matches are too low and that the matches were small and line up at the time frame of the 1500s...that is definitely not correct. Even if you go back to the settlers' in Jamestown arriving -- that doesn't make sense; that wasn't until, I think it was, 1607.

All of the DNA matrices that have been run and the triangulation and chromosome mapping that have been performed line correctly up at Bluesky Cornstalk, Chief Cornstalk, Peter Cornstalk, Chief Silverheels, Tecumseh, The Prophet. Because I do not have it posted on the blog yet, does not mean that the analyses have not been performed. The charts are clear. I would ask you to please take the time to study the charts before commenting. What you write is a misrepresentation of the data presented. If you study the chromosome mapping/centimorgan value length matches, there are innumerable matches at the 4.5 cM level and much higher.

I invite you to read the opening paragraphs on The Proof page. Each family member has matches of over 7.0 up to, I think one of the matches is at 19.0 cM. Of course there's the shuffle of the DNA cards, so some have stronger matches than others...but I know the EXACT family relationships as well as Carlyle Hinshaw and others no mentioned here.

Since you are a Cremeans, perhaps you need to have a talk with my cousin Bob Cremeans, also a well-respected genetic genealogist He's vetted the family lines and the DNA.. His mother's DNA is included on the main page of the blog.

The "White" participant is Tammy White Lettell...Bluesky descendant through the Adkins.

David, you might be interested to know that besides Adkins, we have VERY HEAVY Cremeans and Estep...we're probably cousins somewhere along the line too ;)

Oh, I forgot to mention that the Matching Segment Search and the Generation matrices are Tier 1 tools on GEDmatch. :)

Tammy White-Leffell is also a direct descendant of Cremeans :)

Sharon Doubell, Yes. And there are trees on Geni.