Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the USA - Is he a descendant of King John of England?

Thierry Badoc Yep. Because of the 100 Years War, and various futile attempts to create peace, very often French royalty would marry English royalty. So there are many paths for French people to be descended from the kings of England. And of course, for English to be descended from French.

A note as to the political issues: clearly this is a thread about genealogy.

Both remarks about his greatness and remarks about his lack of greatness are equally problematic, because they can cause feelings to intensify on one side or another.

So please be very careful to leave opinions about the subject of the genealogy out of the discussion.

And if you find yourself outraged or upset about what somebody has posted, certainly you can ask them to be careful not to get into political opinions, but when doing so be very careful not to become insulting. That does not help.

And finally, anyone who has referred to the subject of this thread as either great or not great is living in a glass house, when it comes to policing other people.

I’m sorry, Cheley, but “ Donald John Trump is the Half-9th cousin 6 times removed * of George Gordon Byron 6th Lord Byron“ is not accurate.

Keep plugging at Isle of Lewis families. Maybe you’ll find the original settlers from Norway.

https://www.isleoflewischessset.co.uk/isle-lewis.html

Lewis is comprised of 683 square miles and a population of approximately 20,000. The only town on the island is Stornoway, which is home to one third of the population. The numerous small villages that are sprinkled across the land are home to the remainder of the people that live on the island. Life on the Isle of Lewis is traditional and many of the traditions are centuries old.

The long-standing industries on Lewis have been crofting, fishing and weaving. Though each of these industries has declined as a sole means to earn a living they are still alive and maintain an important role in life on the island.

Brian Johnson, you asked:

>>> "Can we sort out whether she was called Catherine or Christine? Wasn't that part of the original mistake?"

The answer is no, unfortunately. She has no birth or baptismal records, and she appears with both names on the few records that have survived. Any attempt to bring her line back further is going to fail due to the absolute lack of evidence.

There are all kinds of vanity genealogies written in the late 1800s and early 1900s positing royal background for her (and everyone else in the Hebrides :)), but none can be taken seriously due to no citations.

The curators working on these lines have no choice but to enforce a strict rule requiring primary sources. Without them, all of these lines will stay as-is.

And if there *are* new records to be found, they won't be found on-line -- they'll be buried in forgotten church books in the back of a closet in Stornoway. That's why we have to trust the local experts, who've said quite clearly that the lines are known to the extent they can be.

Building the Scottish side of Trump's ancestry is a futile effort. Build the German side -- loads of records available, loads of opportunities to connect him into other lines.

Brian Johnson To add onto what Private User said, one of the other difficulties in doing genealogical research in the Hebrides is the language. These individuals did not speak English, rather they spoke Gaelic, which is an entirely distinct language. Trump's mother, according to this article from politico, "spoke almost exclusively in Scots Gaelic before leaving for a new life in the United States at age 18," and this was in the 20th century. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-scotti...

The names which we see on 19th-century vital records were most likely anglicized (translated into English) by whichever priest or notary made them. Catherine/Christine was probably named Catriona or Cairistiona.

Yes. I have been studying Irish Gaelic at the university level for several years, and even I struggle with deciphering a lot of Scottish Gaelic. So people with zero Gaelic knowledge are going to be especially disadvantaged with Hebridean research. Gaelic and English are nothing alike, and the naming conventions are totally different. A lot of times, it only *appears* that two people share a name, because an Anglophone census-taker Anglicized their names into the same things.

Yet another reason I think the German side of his family is a more fruitful path.

The ABOUT on this profile is despicable and political. Needs to be pretty much deleted in order to remove all the bias. Mike Stangel

LOL. Ìt's what happens when anyone is connected to the world tree

Me
→ Marie Rose Davidson
your mother → John Frederick Burley
her father → Lena Grace Solomon
his sister → Harold Reginald Solomon
her husband → Isaac Solomon
his father → Louis Solomon
his father → Esther Aarons
his sister → Issac Samuel Aarons
her son → Albert Aarons
his son → Nancy Sackville
his daughter → <private> Rose (Sackville)
her daughter → Kelly Joanne Gelfand
her daughter → Jono Gelfand
her husband → <private> Goldberg (Borowski)
his mother → Judy Borowski
her mother → Joseph "Yossel" Kushner
her brother → <private> Kushner
his son → Jared Kushner
his son → Ivanka Trump
his wife → Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the USA
her father

Unknown Profile - you’re not following the Trump tree on Geni. If you go up profile by profile, you will see, perhaps more clearly, that you jumped over to “a different family in a different location”.

—-

William MacLeod of Skerray
(1806-1869)
* Catherine MacLeod
(1809- )

—-

This couple did not live on Isle of Lewis and their children did not go to Isle of Lewis. There is not a way they can be the ancestors of President Trump.

Cynthia Curtis, A183502, US7875087 are you referring to the "About" on Trump's profile? It appears pretty factual to me -- where's the bias?

Mike Stangel I started a new discussion. MANY others have weighed in and agree that it appears biased and should be changed. Please see that discussion?

Cynthia Curtis, A183502, US7875087 by "MANY" I guess you mean you and Cheley. But no matter, it's the content that's important. I'll respond to the discussion you started.

You "funny guy", cousin! Thank you for looking Mike Stangel, sir. I appreciate it

Here:
https://www.geni.com/discussions/219222?msg=1418761&amp;page=2

https://www.geni.com/discussions/219222?msg=1418761&amp;page=1

Re William MacLeod of Skerray (1806-1869) & Catherine MacLeod
(1809- )

They did not exist. The true couple is Catherine/Christian MacLeod & William Macleod

The mixup is with Catherine Elisabeth Macleod who married William Telford, of Skerry

=====
We find Elizabeth Telford (MacLeod) living with her family in the town of Thurso in Scotland on the 1841, 1851, 1861 and 1871 Scotland Censuses. To drive home the fact that this is the daughter of Commissary MacLeod and Elizabeth Davidson, the mother, Elizabeth Davidson, is living with her daughter's family in 1851 and 1861. In addition it is clear that the Telford/MacLeods are a wealthy family as they have multiple servants living in their household.

And where do the Byrons come into it? I do not see how?

Captain John Byron British Army

* Ansus MacKay tenant in
Kinlochbea
(1756-1791)
* Katherine Gordon 13th Laird of Gight
(Cir 1765-1811)

Unknown Profile Diana Collins and Tamas and Judi and I and others reviewed this tree last year. It is correct as per the official Presidential genealogists and more - the Geni tree is better than most.

You’ve had me looking at more McKay and Macleod families - for instance look at the nice tree here. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/MacKay-286

But you have gone off the Presidential track by jumping over to the Thurso and Skerry Macleods. They are “different.”

The “wrong” tree is posted here:

https://fabpedigree.com/s053/f695365.htm

Please note: it has the “error.”

Please, please - go straight back on the Geni tree.

This is the “very long and detailed” discussion taking apart the “incorrect” Royal descents. The thread is from 2 years ago when Geni was embarrassingly incorrect. Geni is “now” accurate as best we know.

https://soc.genealogy.medieval.narkive.com/5fngXuaC/george-gordon-6...

I thought you’re going over Trump ancestry. Start separate discussion if you want Ruthven addressed.

There should be no particular relationship to the Trump family of this well sourced profile.

Janet Stewart

Janet Stewart MP
Gender: Female
Birth: 1503
Kintail, Ross-shire, Scotland
Death: February 05, 1580 (76-77)
Dunrobin, Sutherland, Scotland
Immediate Family:
Daughter of John Stewart, 2nd Earl of Atholl and Janet Campbell, Countess of Atholl
Wife of Alexander Gordon, Master of Sutherland; Sir Hugh Kennedy of Girvanmains, Knight; Henry Stewart, 1st Lord of Methven and Patrick Ruthven, 3rd of Ruthven

As if described in the profile “About,” she married 4 times.

While we're passing, the first chunk of her About is about a different Janet Stewart.

Just goes to show how easy it is to confuse namesakes in Scotland :)

(The Hugh Kennedy mentioned is the grandson of tbe Hugh who married the earl's daughter)

Moved that text to Lady Jonet Stewart

I posted on the assist discussion...no reaction thus far...

Can any curator on this discussion look at this profile, view the tree, and possibly complete the pending merges...if you have the power to do so...

Gerhard Zimmer

Diana Collins, there are no sources on those profiles that we can compare to make sure they're a match. Can your share yours?

German genealogy is especially dependent upon sources for merging because of their naming conventions, so I and at least some other curators are reluctant to merge uncites German profiles. That's probably the delay.

*uncited, sorry...phone typing is hard :)

See if this will come up for you...

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/sources/GMWS-328

There was another site...will look.

Sorry for the delay in responding, Diana Collins!

Thanks very much for the link. It looks like they are indeed a match, but that there are no citations for Gerhard's mother or his wife Magdalena's parents.

So I will do the merge, but we're going to need to have two discussion threads to figure out where those parents -- and really all the birth info -- is coming from. And if we can't find it, we may need to cut some or all of the parents.

Hey....you you make heads or tails out of what this is saying about Trump... over my head

Dol's were first found in the same place (Mecklenburg) as same-colored Trumps while the Sinclair rooster on the Lower/Louer Crest stands on a TRUMPet. Donald Trump, who wants to be the U.S. president, was traced to Donald TUSK, now the E.U president, and Mr. Tusk, according to others, has ancestry in the Mecklenburg area. His surname looks like a TUSCany possibility. In the write-up of Walers/Wahlens, of a surname suspect with the Dol whale, the first of the surname is said to be J. Wale of Pomerania (beside Mecklenburg), and in particular at Agrippa-suspect Greifswald, where the Griffin surname of Pomerania is known to have lived. The next-mentioned is a Gerd Waler from ANKlam, perhaps linkable to ANKetille, a descendant of Malahule. Anketille's name is spelled in various ways; Wikitree has it as, ANSchitel, evoking the ANScars of Ivrea (preceded Arduin of Ivrea and led to Rozala); it just so happens that Anschetil died in Tosni! In fact, here's how Wiki puts it: "Died after 0955 in Toeni (Tosny)Louviers..." The page is titled: "Anschitel, Lord of Isle de la Marche de Toeni" No guff. This is new to me, probably a thing glossed over because I had never emphasized nor deeply investigated the Toeni entity. Toeni is not in the Bessin, but the Bessin is in CALVAcamp-suspect Calvados, which was traced suggestively to "Chives / Ceva." Caves."
http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Toeni-20