King David of Israel - King David of Israel

That is happening more and more on this site. Lines are changing for what reason I do not know. I have printed some of the older lines that show the relationship and compare them to the lines now - and some of them make no sense.

https://www.aish.com/atr/Davidic-Line-Today.html

Davidic Line Today
I’m wondering what happened to the House of David. After the end of the Kingdom of Judah was there any memory what happened to King David’s descendants? Is there any family today which can trace its lineage to David – and whom the Messiah might descend from?
The Aish Rabbi Replies:
Thank you for your good question. There is no question that King David’s descendants are alive today. God promised David through Nathan the Prophet that the monarchy would never depart from his family (II Samuel 7:16). The prophets likewise foretell the ultimate coming of the Messiah, descendant of David, the “branch which will extend from the trunk of Jesse,” who will restore the Davidic dynasty and Israel’s sovereignty (Isaiah 11:1, see also Jeremiah 33:15, Ezekiel 37:25).
King David’s initial dynasty came to an end with the destruction of the First Temple and the Babylonian Exile. In an earlier expulsion King Jehoiachin was exiled by Nebuchadnezzar, together with his family and several thousand of the Torah scholars and higher classes (II Kings 24:14-16). Eleven years later the Temple was destroyed. The final king of Judah, Jehoiachin’s uncle Zedekiah, was too exiled to Babylonia. He was blinded and his children were executed (II Kings 25:7).
However, Jehoiachin and his descendants did survive in exile. Babylonian cuneiform records actually attest to Jehoiachin and his family receiving food rations from the government. I Chronicles 3:17-24 likewise lists several generations of his descendants (either 9 or 15 generations, depending on the precise interpretation of the verses), which would have extended well into the Second Temple era. (One was the notable Zerubbabel, grandson of Jehoiachin, who was one of the leaders of the return to Zion and the construction the Second Temple.)
In Babylonia, the leader of the Jewish community was known as the Reish Galuta (Aramaic for “head of the exile,” called the Exilarch in English). This was a hereditary position recognized by the Babylonian government. Its bearer was generally quite wealthy and powerful, well-connected to the government and wielding much authority over Babylonian Jewry.
According to Jewish tradition, the Exilarch was a direct descendant of Jehoiachin. The Talmud (Sanhedrin 5a) understands Genesis 49:10 – Jacob’s blessing to Judah that “the staff would not be removed from Judah” – as a reference to the Exilarchs in Babylonia, “who would chastise Israel with the staff,” i.e., who exercised temporal authority over the Jewish community. It stands to reason that these descendants of Judah were descendants of David’s house, who would have naturally been the leaders of the Babylonian community, in fulfillment of God’s promise to David that authority would always rest in his descendants.
There is also a chronological work, Seder Olam Zutta (an anonymous text from the early Middle Ages), which lists 39 generations of Exilarchs beginning with Jehoiachin. One of the commentators to Chronicles, the Vilna Gaon, states that the first one was Elionai of I Chronicles 3:23.
The position of Exilarch lasted for many centuries. The Reish Galuta is mentioned quite often in the Talmud. As can be expected, some were quite learned themselves, some deferred to the rabbis for religious matters, while some, especially in the later years, fought them and their authority tooth and nail.
Exilarchs existed well into the Middle Ages, throughout the period of the early medieval scholars known as the Gaonim. The last ones known to history was Hezekiah, who was killed in 1040 by the Babylonian authorities, although he was believed to have had sons who escaped to Iberia. There are likewise later historical references to descendants of the Exilarchs, especially in northern Spain (Catelonia) and southern France (Provence).
Beyond that, there is no concrete evidence as to the whereabouts of King David’s descendants. Supposedly, the great French medieval sage Rashi (R. Shlomo Yitzchaki) traced his lineage to King David, although on a maternal line. (In addition, Rashi himself had only daughters.) The same is said of Rabbi Yehuda Loewe of Prague (the Maharal). Since Ashkenazi Jews are so interrelated, this is a tradition, however dubious today, shared by many Ashkenazi Jews.
In any event, we do not need be concerned today how the Messiah son of David will be identified. He will be a prophet, second only to Moses. God Himself will select him and appoint him to his task. And he himself, with his Divine inspiration, will resolve all other matters of Jewish lineage (Maimonides Hilchot Melachim 12:3).

Thomas Edward Wallace Geni is dynamic, and constantly being vetted and corrected: all members do this, or should. So relationship paths will change. Generally speaking, there is a discussion attached to profiles with genealogy changes (or should be). And the revisions tab gives a history. But you need to determine the profile that changed.

Private User
If you look at the list of Discussions tab under this profile, you will see that there are a dozen or more discussions on exactly this question.

The short answer is that these lines constantly get cut DELIBERATELY for the simple reason that despite how popular they are, NONE of these lines have any historical and genealogical value.

I'll try and find a link to a more detailed answer of mine to one of these debates.

I trace my family tree through this website a few years back after I had a near death experience during open heart surgery in 2011. I am a descendent of the Lurria family which is the only family that had records going back hundreds and even thousands of years. My family tree traces back to Zerubabbel .

John Holliday
First off all , I wish you well
Can you show your connection to the luria family?
I have many great grandparents from this family, including the first luria, so anyone who belongs to the luria family must be my relative

Congratulations Lord Bruce Ross Myers. Our cousins abound!

Do you have an overwhelming desire to save mankind, or are you just puffing up your ego? You might want to rethink that claim, dude. that's a big responsibility. Honestly. I just had to call you out on this one.

Lord Bruce Ross Myers, Messianic tendencies don't usually wind up so well for the believed Messiah. I'm thinking of a few notable 20th century cult figures who thought they had it going on. Sorry, Marvin Gaye was playing. Phrase just presented itself.

This thread poped up on my feed. Me and that Lrd dude are 13th cousins or he's my 9th great uncle.

Me and "haim wartski haCohen are 49th 5 times removed

lol, thanks, Joni, was just an idea, to boast possible, motives to get others to find there past that's it, to get them to wonder what about me, an inspiration for others to get there true thoughts out and say what the, and find out what if, you never know you never know, if you don't ask you don't get, just on my lineage there is one family all the way down to Maritje Matthys Buys (Brouwer) one family the connections are powerful, to the Van Horn, to the Roelofson (Rule) and my great grandfather Baron, just sayin, and Susanne Floyd, for her Messianic tendencies that I have, lol Words mean many meanings, means that words can be false or misleading, lol This is a positive attitude, just keeping it positive, to inspire others to find there past to correct the future, to let them know so they can figure out who, I guess the first one can get it maybe, if any I will accept any challenges openly, lol

Micah Lane, 13th cousin, good day

Hey Micah Lane Taylor, Capt Cornelius van Horn goes right into the Roelofson (rule ) Freemasonic family you are it seams, nice, did you know you are connected to Freemason's?

Lord Bruce Ross Myers, ???? What do Freemasons have to do with it? Just asking for information purposes. I have no idea.

just an observation, not for you, just saying, you have attitude, not good, I am happy, not irritable just for my eyes not yours, next time some things are better left un said

Lord Bruce Ross Myers, I get that. Here is hoping you find everything you need to find. I mean that. I think that I do "have attitude," but it isn't meant to be unkind. Just trying to follow your train of thought. Honestly. Live long and prosper.

Lrd Bruce Ross Myers, have not put much stock into freemasonry. Although, i do have really good friends who are 22° and 33° ect. Not my thing. I myself actually follow the teaching of Judaism. The whole reason i took the dna test and entered this journey was to prove whether or not i had Jewish ancestry, and not merely just speculation on a few names on the family tree. I don't think i could be a freemason, i definitely don't believe the gosple to swear a oath on the KJV which all 22° and lower swear on. And i definitely do not believe in what the Koran nor Mohammed or pray to Allah, which all 33° shriners do. Either way, not my think. Although it all is pretty cool. Cousin.

"Lord Bruce Myers is Blood and In-law relationship

King David of Israel is my 111th great grandfather.

King David of Israel is my third great grandfather's wife's first cousin thrice removed's husband's 85th great grandfather.

In-law and Blood relationship

I have the whole lineage but don't want to post it for it will be disconnected to, lol

I am connected too King David on both lineages, nice."

That text was added to Geni profile of Kind David by Bruce Myers. Not the right place. That is vandalizing the tree. If anyone at my country would do something like that, curator would ban the user. That has happened few times. (And not even for vandalizing.) Seriously not funny.

Shmuel-Aharon Kam (Kahn / שמואל-אהרן קם (קאן and Erica Howton maybe lock the profile? Just sad that people do something like that.

Editing wars has no place in geni. We are doing lot of research here and lot of work. If the profile is let open, that is no reason to mess with it like that.

Private User I removed the section. You are absolutely right, Geni is a communal family tree and as such these sorts of personal "my ancestor" types of comments should not be added to historical profiles.

Thank you Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert

There are new line again to King David, that seem to have some Bulgarian names that maybe are not correct and not old enough sources, Still checking them out.

Petrislav Vojislavić
his father → Mihajlo Dragimirović
his father → Stefan Vojislav Grand Zupan of Duklja
his father → N/a Ljutimirova
his mother → Ljutomir - Lubomir Prince of Serbia
her father → ? Klonimirović
his mother → Časlav Stojimirović
her father → NN. of Bulgaria
his mother → БОРИС Михаил Български
her father

Private User

Yes, the line as it stands is https://www.geni.com/path/B%C3%A9la-III-of-Hungary+is+related+to+Ki...

Béla III of Hungary

→Geza II, king of Hungary his father

→Jelena Urošević, Queen consort of Hungary his mother

→Uroš I Petrislavić her father

→ Vukan Mihailović his father

→ Petrislav Vojislavić his father

→ Mihajlo I Dragimirović his father

→ Stefan Vojislav Grand Zupan of Duklja his father

→ N/a Ljutimirova his mother

→ Ljutomir - Lubomir Prince of Serbia her father

→ ? Klonimirović his mother

→ Časlav Stojimirović her father

→ NN. of Bulgaria his mother

→ Boris I, Archon of Bulgaria her father

→ Presian l, Khan of Bulgaria his father

→ Zvinitsa his father

→ Omurtag, Kanasubigi of Bulgaria his father

→ Krum, Khan of Bulgaria his father

→ Азан Тукта син на Кермек Дуло his father

→ Kermek his father

→ Sevar Prince of the Bulgurs his father

→ Anastasia his mother

→ Justinian II, Eastern Roman Emperor her father

→ Constantine IV, Eastern Roman Emperor his father

→ Constans II, Eastern Roman Emperor his father

→ Konstantinos III, Eastern Roman Emperor his father

→ Heraclius, Eastern Roman Emperor his father

→ Herakleios Exarch of Carthage his father

→ Florus Valentinian his father

→ Placidia his mother

→ Flavius Anastasius her father

→ Anastasius, Roman Consul his father

and back on to David

I think that this line breaks in at least 7 places.

1. Ljutomir - Lubomir Prince of Serbia is possibly a mythological figure.

2. Then,
→ ? Klonimirović his mother

→ Časlav Stojimirović her father

→ NN. of Bulgaria his mother
All seem really sketchy and will need further examination.

3. Krum, khan of Bulgaria His origins are unknown and I suspect that his "father," Toktu, khan of Bulgaria, is just a made-up profile to connect him to an earlier Bulgarian dynasty.

4. The link between Kermek and Sevar, khan of Bulgaria looks suspicious as well. Sevar was the last ruler of the Dulo dynasty and the dynasty died with him, so I suspect Kermek is probably not his son, but I will need to do a bit more reading here.

5. Anastasia Sevar's mother. She was arranged to marry Tervel of Bulgaria, Justinian promised his daughter's hand in marriage to Tervel in return for an alliance, but it is unclear if the marriage ever happened, so she my not be Sevar's mother. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/BYZANTIUM.htm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tervel_of_Bulgaria#Alliance_with_Just...

6. Herakleios Exarch of Carthage His origins are unknown. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraclius_the_Elder#Origin

7. The entire tree around Ioannes Mystacon, husband of Placidia, needs to be reworked. No proof that any of these people (his children and parents) are related to him. It is all just conjecture. A collage of various historical figures. See Settipani, Continuité des élites à Byzance durant les siècles obscurs. Les princes caucasiens et l'Empire du VIe au IXe siècle (pg. 122-126).

I think we should start individual discussions for each of these problem areas one at a time so that we can gather the evidence and make an informed and communal decision over how to proceed at each step. It seems we have a lot of work ahead of us. :-)

Sincerely,
Tamas Caldwell-Gilbert

Yes, alot of work to clean up the corruption of deleted works of the past, the Cabal is good at that, the fall of the Cabal, the Illuminati/Freemason, you will all know in 2021, you will know, these people run this world if you know ANYTHING about history, lol

Private User and Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert, I'd like to see this straightened out. I agree if discussions get launched, it needs to be fixed. Right now, King David is my 110th ggrandfather and I always say "If you can believe that." I am not sure of much beyond Uroš I Petrislavić on my line as he is MPd and most seems to read clear to that. Though not sure. I'd welcome the review.

https://peoplepill.com/people/uros-i-of-rascia/

Sad we had to get ruled by little kids, they have no merit, experience or anything to be King, dam, When Bela II died on 13 February 1141, the eldest son Géza II ascended the throne, still a child. Therefore, Helena and her brother Beloš Vukanović, whom she had invited to the court, governed the Kingdom of Hungary until September 1146 when he came of age.

Beloš was the Ban of Croatia 1142-1158, under the Hungarian crown, and held the comes palatinus (Count palatine), the highest court title of the Kingdom.

https://www.geni.com/people/Uroš-I-Petrislavić/6000000003858579100?...

….was the son of ….

https://www.geni.com/people/Marko-Mihailović/6000000002187893033?th...

….not....

https://www.geni.com/people/Vukan-Mihailović/6000000026015355284?th...

Diana Collins Interesting. Wikipedia cites a primary source for this as Anna Comnena, The Alexiad:

"Then Bolcanus [Vukan] took heart, and soon came bringing some relations and the chief of the Zupani [*=Zoupans, the feudatory lords] with him, and readily handed over his nephews as hostages to the Emperor, Uresis [Uros] and Stephanus Bolcanus by name, and others as well, bringing up the number in all to twenty." (Book IX, part X) https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/basis/AnnaComnena-Alexiad09.asp

Notice there is no mention of Marko in here, just that Uros was the nephew of Vukan.

John Van Antwerp Fine in The Early Medieval Balkans... (pg. 226) identifies Uros as the son of Vukan. So does the The New Cambridge Medieval History: Volume 4, C.1024-c.1198 (pg. 269) https://books.google.com/books?id=cUl53tLtFukC&pg=PA268&lpg...

Here is Fine's book: https://books.google.com/books?id=Y0NBxG9Id58C&pg=PA226&lpg...

Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert Yes I still have many of these profiles at workdesk from last year.

Toktu, khan of Bulgaria

There are some info in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toktu_of_Bulgaria mentioning primary source, Bahši Iman, Džagfar Tarihy, vol. III, Orenburg 1997. ( I have not searched that yet, nor the other references)

I started asking about him already by messaging managers and asked if it is possible also to translate the name, but got answer that :"touching the name would be fabricating" because the person did not have western name :). Western alphabets are being used in most of historical profiles here and there is possibility to have a name written in many languages, so I do not understand why that profile would be any different.