New Appel/Botha Profile Pic?

There has been a request to change the photo on the profiles attached to this project that had the purpose of differentiating the DNA line of Theunis Botha that descends from Ferdinandus Appel from the DNA line that descends from Friedrich Both, SV/PROG 1.

The pic presently used was chosen with some care to represent the Appel surname that has been erased in name by Maria Kicker's infidelity.

The world famous painting is by Lucas Cranach der Ältere - a German Renaissance painter known for his portraits of the leaders of the Protestant Reformation, whose cause he embraced with enthusiasm. He was a close friend of Martin Luther. His credibility couldn't be better.

I see nothing offensive about it, but would like to elicit opinions, including about what profile pic we can use in replacement to keep the Appel DNA line identifiable amongst the Bothas, if there is a consensus that this one should be replaced.

I didn't like it, for I want to give files to children (for their children+ perhaps) and profile pictures are included, I do not deem that picture child friendly. Personally I am fine with it, understand the significance, but that doesn't matter.

I too have no moral objection to the nudity. However: I agree with Jan. Further, I hope I do not step on toes, but Genesis is derived from Sumerian/Babylonian mythology. Even if you want to take it literally, there is no mention that the fruit involved was an apple. I would replace the picture with an apple (antique painting if available).

Die morele standaarde van mense het veral die laaste dertig jaar lelik inmekaar getuimel. Ons praat baie keer van dit wat ons ouers vir ons nagelaat het - hoekom kan ons nie 'n beter nalatenskap vir ons kinders gee nie. Klein en groot, jonk en oud is vasgevang in die navorsing van families. Ek kan nie 'n familie stamboom (diagram) waarin Theunis Botha se huidige profiel foto pryk, vir vriende, familie, vreemdes aanstuur nie of om dit vir iemand op die rekenaar/internet te wys nie. Dit is 'n groot verleentheid!
Die keuse is eenvoudig: Is ons van die wereld of is ons in die wereld?

I think the issue here is the acceptability of the image to the relatives, regardless of the quality or origin of the art.
I would accept an alternative image or no image at all.

I understand why the image was selected but as there have been objections (not only now) these should be respected. This is a collaborative tree with MANY people affected.

Perhaps people could make suggestions for replacements by adding them to this profile? Appel-Botha Sample

I have kicked off with a few variations - just add yours to the media and we can all make a decision later down the line?

I also do agree that the picture of the painting is not suitable for a genealogical site.

Me myself have had endless complaints about the profile picture.☺

Judi

June that looks much better.
Maybe someone else who are also as talented as June ☺☺ In ideas can help her although I ma sure she will find one can also jump in. I am hopeless in that department. I can write but me artistic ways were lots before I was born.☺☺

J

I like the idea of an "apple"! Not sure how or why an image of Adam and Eve have anything to do with Ferdinandus Appel. After all it was Maria who was accused of loose morals but am not suggesting she has the pic on her profile!

I'm good with replacing with an apple pic

I looked for a suitable pic on Google Images in lunchtime but at the moment not yet anything suitable. Most are stock photos that need to be licensed. We should also be careful not to use 20th century man made variety.

Are any of those I loaded preferred? I have labelled them

cjb3 - wording the best legible. The brown background on some does not provide good contrast.

First 2 are equally preferred

I think the clearest is cjb3

As indicated in the original post I am not in favour of the A&E image. If there really must be an alternative I will go for June's Apple, but I would rather prefer no image at all. Why? By implication it casts the blame squarely on old Ferdinandus, and while it takes two to tango IMHO Maria was the mover and shaker in the whole sorry affair, if you get my drift.

Agree - first two. I don't like the brown apple - it looks rotten :-)

I do not know what the talk of blame is about. The issue of the image is to make it possible to distinguish the Bothas of Appel genetic descent from the Bothas of Botha genetic descent on a patriarchal line.

Kan iemand my asb inlig waar die voorbeelde gesien kan word?

https://www.geni.com/discussions/208411?msg=1367126

Dankie.

Let me know if you want to change the image - I am happy to do it over a few days - I think the red one is clearest.

Go for it.

I don't think that Ferdinandus Appel should carry the image - just descendants

I was thinking... probably should not think on this as the more time spend on this... the more further "thinking" is needed.

We all know that BOTHA is one of the largest families in RSA and this is measured only by those carrying the BOTHA surname.

Therefore I am shuddered by the suggestion that all descendants of APPEL should have this picture. On the one hand, if we make no distinction between male and female, then we end up with a RSA tree where everyone is red apples. On the other hand, if we only flag males, then the picture is not really clear. Until a male not BOTHA bites that apple? :(

The question boils down to what are we really trying to achieve by this. The more I think about this, logic prevails that only perhaps the first line should have a different picture, else we are interfering with what GENI does best.

While I have my stick out, the same goes for users whom flags pictures in multiple parts of the tree by "area" as example. Taking it too far is not adding value at all. But this is an aside, perhaps, as I see some relation in theory here.

So need clarity as to what "descendants" mean?

I tend to agree with Jan on the levels of using this apple
I would limit it to the first APPEL/BOTHA and possibly one level lower.

I know this is a juicy APPLE with many reports in the early days

and also the article in "Huisgenoot" in 1926

and also prominent persons like Gen Louis and finger swinging PW and Bakkies Botha (Akkies APPEL?)

and the widely publicised DNA testing by Tukkies a few years ago

but would not really like APPLES all over Geni!

If we do want to "honour" this line over many generations let us then also think about those branches where

Anna Hasselaar's out of wedlock Caspar Pester is now shown as stamvader Andreas Bester's oldest son,

Old Barend Hendrik Botes of the 1700's who had an out of wedlock son in between his 3 marriages and was saved from humiliation by old CARR from Piedmont and who has a large number of descendants today

All those children given away, thrown away, exchanged for debt of their parents, legally adopted, born incestuous, rape descendants etc, etc

SO let us just turn the prominence a bit lower!

I have just been replacing the original image but an happy to stop at say 3 generations?
will remove both from any more recent if that is what people would prefer. I is beginning to look like an orchard!! We could use the green apple for females? Ouma duties this morning so that will slow things down

Granny Smith is green but sour, but Golden Delicious is yellow and soooo juicy!

Chuckle!!

How about an image with an espaliered apple tree? It is an old traditional way of growing apples. In keeping with the times in which Ferdinandus lived!

Baie dankie vir die verwydering van die 'Eden' -profiel, dit word regtig baie waardeer!!!

Die nuwe profiel ... klassiek!!

Dankie aan elkeen wat dit moontlik gemaak het!