Samuel, Tsar of Bulgaria - Samuel, Tsar of Bulgaria

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~imladjov/

It sounds like he wrote an expanded paper for NEHGR so I’ll try and find it.

Some of his journal articles ...

http://opac.regesta-imperii.de/lang_en/autoren.php?name=Mladjov%2C+....

https://bgsu.academia.edu/IanMladjov Includes current contact link.

Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert particularly with the Hungarian interests this looks right up your alley & faster than the bus to Princeton.

I think this is the updated research (2013)

https://www.academia.edu/14079156/I._Mladjov_Bulgarians_and_Magyars...

I sent Ian Mladjov a message with a link to this discussion when I downloaded the paper.

It was never in doubt that ripsimia is samuels mother. What is in doubt is who her parents were.

Ian Mladjov really does seem to be among the current researchers and he’s silent on her origins. And if you read his work, he’s not afraid to be controversial or posit theories. So I am most interested in what he thinks.

As a descendant (supposedly) I think our next step is more information about Ashot & his wife Marie added to their GENI profiles.

I think I have a reference that she’s “not” known as a daughter of Ashot (unless he’s part of what’s referred to here):

“ A partial Armenian descent for Samuil and his brothers is nevertheless likely through their mother Ripsimija (Hripsimē), whose name is typically Armenian, and who may have originated in a community of Armenian Paulicians resettled in the Balkans for stra-tegic purposes by the Byzantine emperors.”

https://www.academia.edu/5629765/I._Mladjov_Reconsidering_Agatha_Wi...

It’s a footnote toward the end of the article, I’ll get a screenshot uploaded because it’s hard to find.

It would help if some of these original sources weren't so extravagantly expensive. I understand high price tags for physical first edition books, but "The Universal History of Stepʻanos Tarōnecʻi: Introduction, Translation, and Commentary (Oxford Studies in Byzantium)" is $103 for the kindle ebook. If anyone knows where a more affordable copy can be acquired, please let me know.

Here’s about the Paulicians

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulicianism

I believe these children of Ripsimje have been disproved:

David Komitopulo Mojsije Komitopulo & Na Комитопулина looks problematic. Are there sources?

This is a good “quick reference”

https://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00332111&tree=LEO

Citing Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.). 2:168

Leo Van der Pass database is considered very good by medieval genealogists.

Citing Armenian sources:

This is Maria of KATCHEN

Marie of Artsack

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahakanuysh

Sahakanuysh (Armenian: Սահականույշ, 10th century) was the third Queen of the Bagratid Kingdom and member of Aranshahik Dynasty. She was the wife of the third Bagratuni king - Ashot the Iron (914-928).

Sahakanuysh was the daughter of Prince of Gardman Sahak Sevada. She had two brothers - Grigor the Great, prince of Khachen (Nagorno-Karabakh Republic), and Hovhannes-Senekerim, prince of Parisos. The latter was situated in Utik province of Armenia (nowadays - Azerbaijan). Her sister Shahandukht married to Smbat Syuni, and became the first queen of Syunik kingdom.

Ashot the Iron and Sahakanuysh had no children

“ Selon Christian Settipani, Achot d'Arménie et Marie de Katchen seraient les parents de Rhipsime, épouse de Nikola Kumet, eux-mêmes parents de Samuel de Bulgarie.”

So it looks like Settipani is the source of Ashot ll as father of Ripsimje, and we don’t know his sources. Of course they should be findable, so why can’t we?

This is odd. I was finally able to snippet into the Seppatani book, and I don’t see parents for Rhipsime on his chart?

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000123551421842&

https://books.google.com/books?redir_esc=y&id=IVdoAAAAMAAJ&...

Here’s a discussion in French of the origins of Samuel of the Bulgars and claiming two sets of brothers have been mixed up. I don’t think I see Ashot but others should look.

https://archive.org/details/Adontz2018SamuelRoiDesBulgares/page/n45...+

Erica Howton,
You amaze me. Thanks you so much for taking so much of your time to do due diligence. I am no expert, but I can safely say that your work as well as all the other curators here is invaluable to amateurs like myself.

According to Christian Settipani , Achot of Armenia and Marie de Katchen, whom he married in 917, were the parents of Rhipsime, wife of Nikola Kumet, themselves parents of Samuel of Bulgaria.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achot_II_d%27Arm%C3%A9nie

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Settipani

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9f%C3%A9rence:Continuit%C3%A9_d...

So explain why Settipani’s chart shows no parents for Ripsimje:

https://books.google.com/books?redir_esc=y&id=IVdoAAAAMAAJ&...

And no other hits besides the chart.

In other words - the Wikipedia authors misinterpreted something, because their own citation does not support the claim.

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/Search.htm

Settipani, "Doctor of HISTORY (2013 1 ) and holder of a "Habilitation to Direct RESEARCH" (2019 2 ), he collaborates with the UMR 8167 "Orient and Mediterranean - the Byzantine world" of the CNRS . He specialized in "the continuity of the elites during the dark periods" and initially made himself known as a SPECIALIST in the GENEALOGY and filiations of characters from the High Middle Ages and ANTIQUITY."

He is also often cited on FMG's Medlands Projects.

No Erica, I think it's more likely that her parentage simply is not relevant to the particular chart cited in the snippet view of this book which retails for over $300. Obviously you won't always find every member of any family on every genealogy chart, because they are usually intended to show particular lineages, not whole families. But I have a feeling the French Wiki article writer has actually read the whole book.

Actually Tsar Samuel’s origins are controversial.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/cafebalkans.wordpress.com/2014/04/27/t...

“ It is claimed that when Tsar Samuil saw the broken remains of his army, he suffered a heart attack and died. By 1018, the last Bulgarian strongholds had surrendered and the First Bulgarian Empire was abolished. Thus, the reign of Tsar Samuil coincides with the end of the First Bulgarian Empire.”

I have sent Christian Settipani an email and tried to contact him through academia.edu to ask if he would mind sharing his expertise and sources on the Rhripsime/Ashot II connection. Hopefully he responds.

In what seems to be a quote from George Ostrogorsky, History of the Byzantine State, Rutgers University Press, (p.301-2), 1969, historyofmacedonia.org writes that "Nothing definite is known about the early history of the Cometopuli. The contemporary Armenian historian Stephen of Taron (Asolik), trans. Gelzer and Burckhardt (1907), 185 f., says that they were of Armenian descent. In spite of N. Adontz, 'Samuel l'Armenien' 3 ff., it remains doubtful how much weight can be given to the statement of this Armenian historian whose information on Samuel is full of obvious errors. N. P. Blegmv, 'Bratjata David, Moisej, Aaron i Samuil' (The brothers David, Moses, Aaron and Samuel), Godisnik na Sofijsk. Univ., Jurid. Fak. 37, 14 (1941-2), 28 ff., considers that Count Nicholas was a descendant of the proto-Bulgar Asparuch, and his wife Ripsimia, the mother of the Cometopuli, a daughter of the czar Symeon, which is entirely without foundation. His 'Teorijata za Zapadno bulgarsko carstvo' (Theories on the West Bulgarian Empire), ibid. 16 ff., contains equally fantastic views." http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/RomanMacedonia/Cometopuli.htm

From this it seems that some historians have tried to make the connection through Ripsimia to the previous dynasty of Bulgarian rulers. To me this is something which they could have attempted if the facts of her parentage been set in stone.

As for the segment of Settipani's book, it is a little too blurry to clearly make out clearly but Rhipsime seems to have (armenia..?..) written under her name. This could perhaps be a notice to look at the Armenian tree for the continuation of her family tree. That particular family tree seems to be for the Bulgarian rulers.

What is important to me in that small segment is that Maria, wife of Tsar Ivan Vladislav of Bulgaria, is listed as the daughter of Boris II. Wikipedia writes that "this descent has been proposed by Christian Settipani based on prosopographical and onomastic elements which appear to link Maria to the Krum dynasty." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_II_of_Bulgaria

The key words here are prosopographical (which describes a person's social status and family connections) and onomastic (which is the study and origin of names). It seems that Settipani is postulating genealogical connections based not on real evidence but rather on conjecture based on names and social rank. I suspect that his Rhripsime/Ashot II connection is probably of the same origin (Armenian name and high social rank).

http://www.orient-mediterranee.com/spip.php?rubrique474&lang=en

Settipani collaborates with France's National Center for Scientific Research on their UMR 8167 "Orient and Mediterranean - the Byzantine world" project. So I would expect his sources are sterling. Maybe gold.

There’s a political agenda in constructing the Tsar Samuel genealogy. See

https://www.worldcat.org/search?q=au%3ADonski%2C+Aleksandar.&qt...

Donski, Aleksandar. 2005. The genealogical lineage between Queen Elizabeth II and the medieval Macedonian Czar Samuel. Sydney: Macedonian Literary Association

And

Donski, Aleksandar, Ljubica Bube Donska, and David Riley. 2013. The brotherly historical ties between the Jews and the Macedonians: in the Holy Land and in Macedonia. Sydney (Australia): Macedonia Literary Association "Grigor Prlichev".

So this is an attempt to tie the Plantagenets to King David.

Debra, Tamas’ interprets Settipani and his methodology as I understand it also. Justin explained it to me and Sharon (and others) years ago.

He does “not” do new facts. Rather, he proposes (and they are only proposals) genealogical tables based on analysis, prosopographical and onomastic.

The table snippet from his book is all there is from him, I believe. He is “not” claiming she is the daughter of Ashot ll, that claim likely has other origins.

That Ripsimje was Armenian seems clearly established. Just her name would do it.

Settipani’s work is indeed highly regarded but I don’t know if his constructions can be proven or disproven. I’ll be more interested in what the historians of Bulgarian history have for data.

Again, I see no children of Ashot ll in this source:

https://archive.org/details/Adontz19351965AshotErkat/page/n15/mode/1up

Ashot Erkat' ou de fer, roi d'Arménie de 915 à 929
Author Nicholas Adontz

This near contemporary history of Armenia by Stephan von Taron is worth looking at although it doesn’t get high marks in this review:

Margoliouth, D. (1909). The Armenian History of Stephanos - Des Stephanos von Taron Armenische Geschichte aus dem altarmenischen übersetzt von Heinr. Gelzer und Aug. Burckhardt. Leipzig: Bibliotheca Scriptorum Graecorum et Romanorum Teubneriana. 1907. The Classical Review, 23(2), 45-46. doi:10.1017/S0009840X00002675

I think this origin story was debunked:

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/YU...

“ I have seen references to "Slownik Starozytnosci Slowian" where
Ripsimia are said to be a daughter of Symeon, tsar of Bulgaria.”

“ That would explain a note I have that there may be a
relationship to the previous dynasty. Ref: Fine again "Early
Medieval Balkans: A Critical Survey from the Sixth to the Late
Twelth Century"

—-

But this reads like what Tamas was seeing in Settipani: a link via Ripisme to a previous dynasty.

Another reachable scholar

https://lsa.umich.edu/history/people/emeritus/jvafine.html