Lady Eleanor Blount (de Beauchamp) - Eleanor de Beauchamp only married John de Meriet

Started by Private User on Sunday, February 9, 2020
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Private User
2/9/2020 at 7:22 PM

Many old pedigrees claim that Eleanor de Beauchamp married 3 times but primary evidence makes it clear that she only married John de Meriet and had died by 1361.

* John Beauchamp & his wife Margaret St John married in about 1320 & had 5 known children; 3 of whom survived to adulthood. Tow daughters; Cecily Beauchamp [who married Gilbert de Turberville & then Roger Seymour], Eleanor Beauchamp [who married Sir John de Meriet] and a son John de Beauchamp.

* When the son John de Beauchamp died in 1361, his heirs were found to be his sister Cecily [Beauchamp] Seymour and John de Meriet, aged about 15 [so born 1345/46], son of his deceased sister Eleanor & her husband Sir John Meriet. IF Eleanor had been alive, SHE would have been the heir, along with Cecily [who also had sons].

* Furthermore, property deed dated to mid 1362 show that the wife of Sir John Meriet is now named "Matilda" & his Inquisition Post Mortem held in 1369 established that Matilda survived him.

* Most pedigrees, to avoid this "issue" show that Eleanor married Sir John Blount BEFORE she married Sir John Meriet. This however, is not possible either, as then her supposed son Walter Blount would have been John Beauchamp's heir.

* The claim that this Eleanor married John Blount seems to be based on a misinterpretation of the Blount's arms. See the following link for a detailed and convincing discussion.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/B3id... no evidence for a Blount marriage

* So, Eleanor needs to be unlinked for Sir John Blount & the Blount children & her date of death changed to before 1361.

For details on the Meriet marriage see here;
Meriet of Meriet and of Hestercombe by B. W. Greenfield 1883
page 127 & 128 Sir John Meriet had married Matilda, his second wife in or before May 1362 as at that date he, as Sir John Meriet, chivalier, for a fine of 20 pounds, obtained a licence [Originalia Rolls, 36 Edward III rot 41] to convey his manors of Lopene and Stratton, Somerset to Robert Sambourne, parson of that church of Meryet, and John Ford, to hold for the use of himself and Matilda his then wife for their lives, with remainded to his right heirs [Inq 36 Edward III (2 nrs) no 56]
He is called John de Meriet, Kt, senior in Close Roll 21 R II pt 2 m.5; in Inq p.m. of Matilda his widow, who remarried Sir Thomas de Bokeland, Kt, 21 R II, no 5, and in Close Roll, 49 E. III m 15d.
Writs of 'diem clausit' on the death of Sir John de Meriet, chivalier, dated 12 October, 43, Edward III (1369), were directed to the escheators of Somerset & Lincolnshire. Accordingly, an Inquisition was taken at Horncastle, Co Lincoln, before Walter de Kelby, the escheator, 20 Oct 43 Edward III (1369)-when it was found that Sir John de Meriet, chivalier, deceased, held in his demesne, two-thirds of the manor of Castel Carlton, of the King in chief, and the reversion of the remaining third part, which Isabel (his mother), who was wife of George de Meriet, his father, held in dower for the term of her life-of the inheritance of him, the said John de Meriet.The entire manor was worth 40 marks per annum. And as the said John de Meriet died at Calais on Tuesday next after the feast of St. Michael in the same year (2 October 1369), and John, son of the aforsaid John de Meriet, was his nearest heir, of the age of 25 years and more. (this is an example of the innacuracy which not infrequently occurs as to the age of the heir - as is shewn, in this instance, in 23) of these notes -[ Inq. p.m. 43 Edward III pt. 2 (1 nrs) no. 2. ]... p129 The Somerset Inquisition, returned to Chancery, has been much damaged... a transcript exists in the escheators account's... held...the manor of Meryet... He also held, together with Matilda, his wife who still survived.. and John de Meryet, his heir, of the age of 23 years and more. ... p. 131, Matilda, second wife of Sir John de Meriet, chivalier, senior, and executrix to his will... This settlement was confirmed by her step-son Sir John de Meriot, Chivalier, 47 Edward III (1372-3), at which time she was the wife of Sir Thomas de Bokeland, chivalier [Inq. 3 R. II no 96].. 132 Sortly after the death of Sir Thomas de Bokeland, her second husband, she, in her pure widowhood on 10 March II R. (1378-9) conveyed her life estate in manors...Matilda died 11 March 1397-8 & was buried at St Peter of South Petherton, Somerset.

2/9/2020 at 9:46 PM

Hi Jennifer, I sent a personal message to Maria Edmonds-Zediker, Volunteer Curator of Lady Eleanor's profile, with the link to this discussion, just in case she doesn't see it.

Thanks for your efforts.

2/9/2020 at 11:42 PM

Disconnected as wife of Sir John le Blount, Kt.

Private User
2/10/2020 at 1:57 PM

Thank you very much Erica Howton

2/10/2020 at 2:56 PM

This does not bode well for Sir Walter to continue to be called a gateway ancestor, but it does seem to be the correct way to go (there goes part of my family.)

Thank you Private User for providing this research, and thanks to Erica Howton for making the change.

2/10/2020 at 4:40 PM

It is a bit of a heartbreaker! But the case, particularly as presented so clearly by Private User (AND she added to the relevant profiles, lest we forget) is inarguable.

We’ll just have to work harder on other lines.

Private User
2/11/2020 at 3:39 AM

I AM sorry to anybody who lost parts of their tree; I have been working on tidying up the Seymour tree & all the other lines connected to it, and I realise it is sometimes sad to be accurate!

2/11/2020 at 5:52 AM

Private User absolutely no need to be sorry. My comment was tongue in cheek. There are so many inaccurate and undocumented sections of the tree, especially in crossing back from the Colonies to Europe. If someone is in this merely to collect ancestors I don't think Geni is the right venue for them. I'd rather have the truth.

2/11/2020 at 1:44 PM

Apologies for something unrelated but I have no idea where else to put it. - Today I found I was separated from Charlemage, his wife, & his parents - soooo, it seems someone is stumbling around in that area now.

2/11/2020 at 9:23 PM

Nancy B. Thompson# — Charlemagne is your 33rd great grandfather on Geni.

2/12/2020 at 7:21 PM

There must be more than one profile - because just a moment ago I came across on that showed "no path" - the same for his mother. Is there more than one Charlemagne?

- This one is good: Charlemagne
- This one is not, "no path": Charlemagne (Caroulus Magnus) 'The Great', King of the Francs

- Pepin III "The Short', King of the Francs - - - Husband of Bertrada 'Bertha' 'The Younger' de Laon, Countess of Laon - - - Father of Charlemagne (Caroulus Magnus) 'The Great', King of the Francs - - - Pepin III has "no path" as does his wife:
Pepin III 'The Short', King of the Francs

- Pépin III, King of the Franks - - is good: Pépin III, King of the Franks

This Bertha Broadfoot of Laon, Queen of the Franks - - is good: Bertha Broadfoot of Laon, Queen of the Franks

This Bertrada 'Bertha' 'The Younger' de Laon, Countess of Laon - - is Not Good, "no path": Bertrada 'Bertha' 'The Younger' de Laon, Countess of Laon

2/12/2020 at 7:29 PM

Solved my problem! I wonder how deep they go though.
The difference is in the manager. Margaret (C) has the good ones that have a path - and
- Sharon-Ann Sheina De Wet/Herr - added and manages the ones that have "no path"

2/12/2020 at 8:32 PM

The ones with no path are also labeled “isolated,” and are duplicate lines that are slated to be deleted. The real Charlemagne is a Master Profile.

2/12/2020 at 11:47 PM

The ones I added do have a path that link to the same sets of parents, but on my family tree there are different people via different branches that link to the same sets of parents. But everytime I try and add the parents that ate missing, they say it is a duplicate and is therefore isolated.

But they are not really duplicates at all, and this is becoming quite frustrating for me.

2/12/2020 at 11:59 PM

If Geni could just link and merge all the various profile lines and branches that they know are correct and the various branches that do link and connect to the same parentage, we would not sit with this problem.

I have many branches where the descendants from different families eventually connect back to the Master Profiles Parentage, so I sit with the problem that I am unable to add these next parents in my tree as well as the world wide tree, as it has been isolated.

2/13/2020 at 12:12 AM

Reply to Nancy B. Black Thompson.

Appologies, I was the one who added

Charlemagne (Caroulus Magnus) 'The Great', King of the Francs

to my tree, as I added him and his wife as parents to a daughter on my tree.

That is what I mean. All these various branches connecting to the same parentage such as Charlemagne for example, are not been merged and connected to the search path if you do it manually.

The link just stops at the daughter or son for example, although you know who her/his parents are. I have come accross so many of these problems with different Profiles, and have then added the parents. Now we sit with this major problem with so-called duplicates and isolated profiles.

It is a nightmare. Geni should really try and update the way different family branches are connected to the same Master Profile Person(s) and upgrade this system.

2/13/2020 at 12:19 AM

I appologize to everyone who is now trying to sort out the mess I have caused wirh me adding these varous sets of 'duplicates' that I have added for different people. But hope you will also understand my dilemma and frutration that many of my family and ancestor lines just stop at a specific person, eventhough I know who the next sets of parents are.

2/13/2020 at 12:43 AM

I will post all the various links I added here, so whomever is working on these various profiles can merged them into the correct Master Profiles.

2/13/2020 at 12:44 AM

Hbani von Bayern, Duke of Swabia of Alemannia

2/13/2020 at 12:46 AM

Charlemagne (Caroulus Magnus) 'The Great', King of the Francs

2/13/2020 at 12:47 AM

Pepin III 'The Short', King of the Francs

2/13/2020 at 12:48 AM

Bertrada 'Bertha' 'The Younger' de Laon, Countess of Laon

2/13/2020 at 12:49 AM

Gerold I de Vinzgau, Duke of Swabia

2/13/2020 at 12:50 AM

Emma von Alemannen, Duchess of Allemania of Swabia

2/13/2020 at 12:51 AM
2/13/2020 at 12:52 AM
2/13/2020 at 12:52 AM

Landrée de Melun

2/13/2020 at 12:53 AM

Adelais de Paris

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