George Ross - Where is the evidence he was son of David Ross, 11th of Balnagowan?

Copying this out for searches:

https://www.tainmuseum.org.uk/userfiles/file/clan_ross/Newsletter-J...

Our backs straightened up remarkably when our group of 67 Ross descendants waving the Finnish white and blue flag was met by applause, while we were marching through the old streets of Tain during the Clan Ross Gathering in August 2009. Close to 400 years had passed since our ancestor William Ross, born around 1598, left Scotland, went to Sweden with his father George and finally ended up in Finland around 1627. There are two theories why William had to leave his home country - either because he and his father were so much in debt that they were put to the horn, or because they were opposed to the King. William Ross’ second son, also called William/Wilhelm and born around 1635, was a man of many trades. He was a merchant, also the mayor of a small town in Ostrobothnia on the west coast of Finland and finally Member of Parliament in Stockholm (capital of the then united Sweden and Finland).

William Ross Junior’s granddaughter Margareta married a Lutheran minister by the name of Benedictus Granroth – and the lot of us marching through the streets of Tain, were all his descendants and members of the Granroth Association. Most of us were living in Finland, but some in Canada, Norway and Sweden. In typical Ross feature, as so many had to leave Scotland for different reasons over the years.

—-

http://www.granroth.fi/index.php?id=1

https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedictus_Granroth

https://kansallisbiografia.fi/paimenmuisto/henkilo/820

P 1706 Margareta Johansdotter Forsman, S 1690, K on a getaway Piitime 13.3.1715, PV to Uusikaarlepyy Pastor Johannes Johannis Forsman and his 1st wife Magdalena Wilhelmsdotter Ross.

So we should look again for this family

http://raketola.fi.31-217-196-241.domainhotelli.fi/grpf13011.html

aviomies: Hugh Ross
syntynyt: 1532 Scotland
vihitty:
kuollut: 1569 Kindeis, Edinburgh, Scotland
isä:
äiti:
puolisot:
vaimo: Catherine McLeod
syntynyt: 1538 Scotland
kuollut: 1569 Scotland
isä:
äiti:
puolisot:
lapset
01 (mies): George Ross
syntynyt: 1569 Kindeis, Edinburgh, Scotland
kuollut: 1647 Scotland
puolisot: Margaret Christine McCollough

Too bad it's not possible to share any pdf-documents here. I mean, the descendants of William Ross many of us have been collecting into our databases.

https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229705367-How-can-I-add-a-D...

Answer to Erica Howtons message starting with the word "Dang!"

I've located at least Ingegerd Ekstrand ! And the Granrotha association. Those descendants of Granroth are descendants of William Ross also!

http://www.granroth.fi/index.php?id=5
Släktföreningen Granroth-Junes sukuseura, info@granroth.fi
http://www.granroth.fi/index.php?id=&sprakval=3

Saga, du borde kunna se din släktskap (liksom jag kan se min) med detta par, och därmed ättlingarna till dessa, och ordföranden i Släktföreningen Granroth Junes sukuseura rf... som jag precis skrev till och betalade medlemsavgift (5 €) till:
Margareta Johansdotter Forsman

So far Geni have "gathered" these descendants of the to Finland coming William Ross - was he born about "1598 Lauder, Haddingtonshire, Scotland" or not:

https://www.geni.com/list/descendants/6000000007676679097#20

Thank you Erica for the instructions how to upload documents.

I really don’t understand the birth place.

Perhaps a mail to Tom Sundius would give new ideas. He is mentioned as the one to contact in "Släktföreningen Granroth Junes sukuseura rf" regarding ancestry research with focus on older family roots of the lines/ families Granroth, Bonelius and Ross - toms@granroth.fi
I joined that association last night.

Excellent! I feel we’re so close, it’s just out of reach.

I followed that up by sending a mail to: 'all@trusthaddington.org.uk' [see the site
http://www.haddington.org.uk/history/7/ ] [from my mail:]

"We are many descendants of William Ross who was born about 1598 in Lauder, Haddingtonshire, Scotland, but 1617 (with his father) moved to Stockholm in Sweden, and ten years later to the estern part of Sweden, Finland, where he became successful and even mayor in Vasa in Ostrobothnia, Finland.

However, we wish to find documentation about where he actually was born, because skilled genealogists try to find that out, but I hope You may know about historical records and all research done about Haddingtonshire, Lauder or whatever place William Ross about 1598 was born.

I’m so grateful if You can inform me about where to search, what researcher to contact, or whatever guidance you will give me/ us who since long wish to find out about our Scottish ancestry."

And perhaps we can get good advices through this Facebook-group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/oldeastlothain/

I today joined this Facebook-group https://www.facebook.com/groups/oldeastlothain?notif_id=16127845067...
looking for their advices:

"Great to join! Thanks! - There's a possibility my ancestry roots go back to a guy who was born "about 1598 in Lauder, Haddingtonshire, Scotland" but then in 1617 with his father moved to Sweden, but ten years later from Stockholm to the Finland... where he later moved to Vasa, where he was the mayor, and where he died in 1648.
I think you have the best knowledge about history and genealogical research relatade to Haddingtonshire, and I appreciate if you can help me find out about the family of this William Ross said to have been born there about 1598. Is the history of Lauder known and written about and are here any genealogists who already know the answers, know about this family and its roots and descendants?"

I immediately started to get answers. In https://www.facebook.com/groups/oldeastlothain/
Tom Buchanan replied that /.../"Lauder is in Berwickshire, next county to East Lothian (Haddingtonshire). I will have a search for him however."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauder#:~:text=The%20former%20Royal%2....

I wonder if this Dere street explaains howcome William Ross was born in Lauder (if he was) and one of Ross of Kindeis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dere_Street

/.../"Medieval history
Below Lauder are the lands of Kedslie which were bounded on the west by a road called "Malcolm's rode", and it is thought this formed part of the Roman road known as Dere Street, which passed through Lauder"/.../ [quote from the wikipedia-article about Lauder]

Se the discussion on https://www.facebook.com/groups/oldeastlothain/?multi_permalinks=28...
Several people there answers and wish to help.

They are a lovely group - and confirming my suspicions. I could think of a “pass through” of a Tain Ross family for study and / or work?

Please Erica Howton - accept my friends-request on Facebook, so I there can SHARE the conversation we had all day in the group I also tried to link to above, but I don't see if you've found it.

Here is one of the good posts in that group today:

"Tom Buchanan
I did not find any record on Scotland Peoples website or the Latter Day Saints site, but on Ancestry, got lucky on a search on "public trees". There is a Family Tree by a Robert Alexander Ross. He names Sir William Ross, born Lauder 1598, as the 10th Laird of Balnagown,( father was Sir George Ross, 5th Laird of Kindels, mother wasLady Margaret Murray. Sir William's wife was Maria Matsdotter Lang, who he married 1636 in Vassa, Lansi-Suomi, Finland. He died in 1648, also in Vassa, This tree has over 20, 000 persons in it, I hope you have access to Ancestry."

I’ll look for the tree on ancestry, but the designation of “10th of Balnagown”?

http://portal.historicenvironment.scot/designation/GDL00046

The first laird of Balnagown was Hugh Ross (d.1374). His grandson, the 3rd laird, Walter Ross expanded the estate and acquired an extensive tract of land across to the western shores of Ross by marriage with Katherine MacTyre, the daughter of Paul MacTyre. The next generations lived in warfaring times and in 1585 the 9th laird, Alexander, was outlawed for his crimes and plundering. His son George followed his example, and in 1615 he too died an outlaw, having bankrupted the estate. His son, David, lived in quieter times and was created a Baronet.

http://www.thepeerage.com/p19860.htm#i198597

George Ross, 10th of Balnagowan was the son of Alexander Ross, 9th of Balnagowan and Janet Sinclair.2

He married, firstly, Marion Campbell, daughter of John Campbell, 3rd of Cawdor.2

He married, secondly, Isabel Mackintosh, daughter of Angus Mackintosh and Lady Jane Campbell.2

He lived at Balnagowen, ScotlandG.3

Children of George Ross, 10th of Balnagowan and Marion Campbell

Katherine Ross+2 d. 5 Jul 1603
David Ross, 11th of Balnagowan+2 d. 20 Nov 1632
Muriel Ross2
Jean Anne Ross+3 b. 1572, d. 9 May 1604
Child of George Ross, 10th of Balnagowan

Alexander Ross2 b. 1592

—-

http://www.thepeerage.com/p56243.htm#i562428

Alexander Ross, 9th of Balnagowan was the son of Walter Ross of Balnagowan and Marion Grant.2 He married, firstly, Janet Sinclair, daughter of John Sinclair, 3rd Earl of Caithness and Elizabeth Sutherland.1 He married, secondly, Katherine Mackenzie, daughter of Kenneth 'na cuire' Mackenzie, 10th of Kintail and Lady Elizabeth Stewart.1 He died on 25 October 1592.1
He also had several daughters by his second wife.1
Children of Alexander Ross, 9th of Balnagowan and Katherine Mackenzie

Nicholas Ross, 1st of Pitcalnie+2 d. Jul 1611
Malcolm Ross of Cambuscurrie1
Children of Alexander Ross, 9th of Balnagowan and Janet Sinclair

George Ross, 10th of Balnagowan+2
Katherine Ross+1
Hector Ross1

Found the ancestry tree - no sources.

https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/25355822/person/26...

Sir WILLIAM ROSS, 10th Laird of Balnagowan
1598–1648
BIRTH 1598 • Lauder, Haddingtonshire, Skottland
DEATH 1648 • Vaasa, Lansi-Suomen Laani, Finland

Parents
George Ross of Kindeis (Kindeace) 5th Laird of Balmachy
1563–1647
Lady Margaret Murray
1575–1618

This might be possible

https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/116446064/person/1...

George Ross of Kindeis (Kindeace)
1563–1647
BIRTH 1563 • Kindeis, Edinburgh, Scotland
DEATH 12 SEP 1647 • Skottland

Parents

Hugh Ross
1532–1569
Katherine MacLeod
1538–1569

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Ross-6280

Lord George "5th Laird Balmachy" Ross
Born about 1596 in Balmachy, Scotlandmap
ANCESTORS ancestors
Son of Hugh Ross and Katherine (MacLeod) Ross
Brother of William Ross
Husband of Margaret of Balmachy (McCulloch) Ross — married [date unknown] (to 1647) in Scotland

Father of Andrew Ross
Died 12 Sep 1647 in Broomhill, Stirlingshire, Scotland

—-

Notes -

This is a confused / obscure listing in Rossiana, and leads to George Aeneas Ross in America.

Those people seem to be lovely and willing to help. Ancestry is same kind of plaform then MyHeritage, Geni is a bit better, because we have so many here to check sources. So sources are ofcourse the ones we need. But everything is worth investigating.

I found something interesting today from Sweden-

https://www.ssns.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Palm_Undin_2012_...

There are more text about Finnish connection to Vaasa but THIS got my eye:

"Some genealogists have connected William Ross of Vasa, Finland to George Ross of
Haddington, Lauder in Scotland. The authors have been in correspondence with Bertil
Rostedt, who claims descendance from William Ross of Vasa.

Rostedt has a letter dated 1817 written by an ancestor seeking ennoblement for the Ross family in Finland. This letter specifies that William Ross had a brother, George, who was established in Stockholm and with whom William engaged in trade during the 1630s

That George who are called also Jöran made debts and had lots of adventures. He could have been babybrother to William/Wellam or relative. There are lots of info from George/Jöran who were in Sweden, he was younger anyway.

I will search now George Ross of Haddington, Lauder in Scotland.

I noticed there are many interesting info in Tain area, and Rossiana papers! In one of those that Erica kindly gave us here were (also at least one Hugh with saying something that there are no more info of his life or something like that.) full of traditional family names William, Hugh, George, what we have here also. We know there are strong tradition having some name going through families. Still a lot to read.

(One of the main investigators in Finland also said some years ago, that William was son of Hugh, not George. So is there Hugh of Lauder? Hugh of Haddington? Better check them all. I know that those investigators were to make a familybook for Nelimarkka-foundation but this is another thing and I dont know more about that at the moment)

Lots of good messages here, jeeee. Tätä on niin ilo jatkaa, kiitos teille molemmille. Inspiroivaa. Kirjoittaminen on vaikeaa tällä puheaplikaatiolla mutta lukeminen sujuu vielä. Thank god.

A good tree from Stirnet

http://www.stirnet.com/genie/data/british/qr/ross09.php

So Erik has been chatting with the lovely people doing local history in Haddington Scotland area and confirm - no Ross there, they do have Roses, a mercantile family. This area of Scotland was lowlands, lawless, borderlands, in fact back and forth with England ... in other words, my own ancestral area. :). (except my Ross line looks to be Highlands, but I don’t think Tain, which is way up North close to Scandinavia).