R' Avraham Ben Moshe Ashkenazi-Heilprin - Evidence for a Second Spouse and Family

PS: I neglected to include that the unknown Epstein mentioned above is the daughter of Yechiel Michel Halevi Epstein.

Moishe Miller - researcher of LANGSAM family at www.langsam.com,

Can you please have a look at this and let us know what we should do with it.

Kevin

Kevin Lawrence Hanit, Private User, and Moishe Miller - researcher of LANGSAM family at www.langsam.com,

FYI:
Rebbe Elimelech Lipman (Weisblum) of Lizhensk is mentioned in Unbroken Chain on page 30 of Chapter 6, with a parenthetical comment that says "Lejask - see Chapter XVII". This is a reference to a chapter that has not yet been published.

Claudia

Claudia BullockThanks Claudia. I take your information to mean that Rosenstein considers R' Elimelech to be a part of the UC and will enter the info on the GENI tree with a note to confirm against the as of yet unpublished Chapter XVII.

Kevin Lawrence HanitBased on the above I connected Avraham Lipman to Meir Lipszyc and made a note regarding Chap XVII on each of the two added profiles: 1) Eliahu Lipszyc, 2) Daughter Lipman.

I will do nothing with the paternal grandmother's line of R' Elimelech which the attached tree shows as going from Daughter Heilprin to Avraham + Daughter Epstein.

Thanks for your assistance.

Private User,

That's correct.

Kevin

Hello Kevin,

I hope my note finds you and yours safe and well.

Thanks for your patience, sorry for the delay in responding. I am not an expert once we get beyond the parents of the Noam Elimelech. I would defer to Neil Rosenstein, author of the unbroken chain. Kevin, I also do know Adam Cherson. My son-in-law is connected to his research and I have found him to be a thought out researcher.

As always, I appreciate your trust.

-Moishe

Moishe,

Thanks for getting back to me. We have to wait until Neil publishes the Chapter in question.

Kevin

Addendum: When UC Chapter XVII is available please check the spouse of parentage of R' Avraham Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv On this profile and on the above mentioned davidic/'lipshtitz tree the spouse is wife, Avraham Heilpern (bat HaLevy Epstein) while here she is the daughter of Lusia Ashkenazi-Heilprin and here the daughter of Shmuel Yehuda Katzenellenbogen In anticipation of the Chapter XVII, it seems that the father of Rabbi Avraham Heilpern who married bat Epsetin was named Yosef Ashkenazy Heilpern rather than Moshe (as shown on the Davidic/Lipshitz tree) however it is impossible to say which of the two Abraham's is the true father of R' Eliezer Lipman Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv it could be a) Avraham (m. bat Walsh) b. Moshe, 2) Avraham (m. bat Epstein) b. Moshe, or c) Avraham (m. bat Epstein) b. Yosef. Until Chapter XVII, proceed with caution.

Private User,

I see that an advisory has been added to the 'about' section of R' Avraham Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv which doesn't seem to make any sense, and perhaps was a mis-interpretation of the addendum you provided above. The bottom line is that there is no need to wait for a 17th chapter of UC to be published in order to address the question of whether the wife and parents shown in the book are consistent with what is currently indicated on his profile. Chapter 1 of UC clearly states that the wife of R. Abraham Heilprin was a daughter of Judah Wahl's, son of R. Meir Wahl's (Walsch) and Pesia (Hesia), daughter of R' Saul Wahl (King for a day) Katzenellenbogen, and also that R' Avraham Heilprin (author of Ahavat Tzion) was the son of R' Moses Ashkenazi Heilprin, author of Zichron Moshe, published Lublin 1611, son of Zebulon Eliezer.

I do not know who added the Advisory to the profile, but I think it needs to be removed, in order to avoid confusion, since there does not seem to be any question in UC regarding who the parents or wife of R' Avraham Heilprin were. That is, we don't need to wait for Chapter XVII to tell us what is already in Chapter 1. There may be other reasons for wanting to look at Chapter XVII regarding this family, but if we simply want to know who his wife and parents were, that is already stated in Chapter 1. Of course I suppose it is possible that there could have been more than one wife, but in any case, I can tell you that the wife and parents currently shown on this profile are documented in Chapter 1, on page 29.

Thoughts?

Claudia

Claudia

Claudia Bullock

Private User

To the best of my knowledge, in regards to the Halperin family itself, the information currently appearing in Geni is the correct information (at least in my branch).

Regarding the comment written on his profile, I also believe that it should be deleted...

It is very possible that whoever wrote the comment, both Adam Cherson and I, read the same source where the things Adam wrote above are written.

I believe that Dr. Neil Rosenstein did extensive research, and therefore the information in the source that the three of us read is probably wrong

Claudia Bullock

To make sure we are not missing something here, could you please check what Dr. Neil Rosenstein wrote,
from
R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav

up to:

Rabbi Zevulun Eliezer Heilprin

Many Thanks
Haim

Claudia Bullock Thanks for this alert. Sometimes things happen that invalidate prior posts. I'm going to review the situation this weekend and see whether any part of the Advisory is still applicable. For now I am removing the Advisory pending a review. In general, when there is an uncertainty on a profile I think it is a good practice to place a note on the profile in question because a comment embedded in a deep thread risks being forgotten.

Claudia Bullock I was able to unravel the situation quicker than expected, and I agree GENI is now correct as far as the parents and spouse of R' Avraham Heilprin, A.B.D. LVIV (although I'm not certain of the name Lusia is currently documented).

Private User,

Thanks. I also am uncertain as to where the name Lusia came from. It did not come from "The Unbroken Chain". In UC, she is simply identified as "Wife of R. Abraham Heilprin", with no given name provided.

Haim Katz Wartski,Hachoen,
I will check on the relationship path that you mentioned above to see if it is consistent with "The Unbroken Chain", and will report back on my findings.

Claudia

Haim Katz Wartski,Hachoen,

In UC Chapter 6, there is a Section D, entitled Halpern (Heilprin_ Family of Tarnogrod, Zaslav and Stanislaw". It begins on page 24, with the marriage of a daughter of Jacob Shor Margola Heilperin (Schor) to Rabbi Eliezer Lippman Heilprin, A.B.D. of Tarnogrod although the name of the daughter is not speciified. They are the parents of R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav This is the entry for the motherr:

G6.6 Daughter, died in Brody, married R. Eliezer Lipman Halpern, ABD Tarnogrod, son of R. Isaac Halpern (Heilprin) ABD Tykocin.

The above entry gets us as far as R' Isaac Halpern, A.B.D. Tykocin i.e. the paternal grandfather of R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav

The entry does have a footnote that refers us to other works for more information on the Halpern family ancestry. It says "For the Halpern family see MLGO, 70, AEA and Horowitz, LTKP, 406. See also the memorial book on Stanislaw with a Halpern family tree and the Minsk-Karlin memorial book article by Z. Rabinowitz of Haifa (Luria and Halpern Families."

Note that the abbreviation MLGO stands for Mizkeret LeGedolei Ostraha, by Menachem M. Bieber, Berdichev, 1907; AEA stands for Sefer Avon Atari LeBonim by R. Aryey Lieb Lipschutz, Warsaw 1928; and LTKP stands for LeToldot HaKehilot BePolin by R. Zvi Hirsch Horowitz, Jerusalem, 1978.

Hope this helps.

Claudia

Haim Katz Wartski,Hachoen,

The following passage gets us from R' Avraham Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv to Rabbi Zevulun Eliezer Heilprin

From Chapter 1, page 29 of "The Unbroken Chain":

"G6.1 Wife of R. Abraham Heilprin, author of Ahavat Tzion, published Lublin 1639, son of R. Moses Ashkenazi Heilprin, author of Zichron Moshe, published Lublin 1611, son of Zevulun Eliezer."

Claudia

Claudia Bullock

I thank you from the bottom of my heart
please (only because I found different information in one source), I am attaching one of my branches to the Halperin family
https://www.geni.com/path/Haim-WARTSKI-HACOHEN+is+related+to+%D7%A8...

can you check please the relationship between

R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav

up to:

R' Avraham Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv

Many Many Thanks

If I understand correctly, the UC has source information regarding: 1) R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav to R' Isaac Halpern, A.B.D. Tykocin and then from 2) R' Avraham Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv to Rabbi Zevulun Eliezer Heilprin The connection between the above two segments, provided on GENI by R' Eliezer Lipman Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv is not confirmed in the UC, correct?

PS: Meaning that Rabbi Eliezer Lipman Ashkenazi-Halperin, A.B.D. Tiktin could theoretically also be the father of R' Isaac Halpern, A.B.D. Tykocin both ABD Tiktin, or even some other Heilprin?

Haim Katz Wartski,Hachoen,

If you review the earlier of my last 2 posts, you will see that part of your question has been answered. That is, the passage from Chapter 6, page 24 of "The Unbroken Chain" tells us that the father of R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav was Rabbi Eliezer Lippman Heilprin, A.B.D. of Tarnogrod and that his father was R' Isaac Halpern, A.B.D. Tykocin

So, to finish answering your question, what is left to do is to verify that R' Eliezer Lipman Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv was the father of R' Isaac Halpern, A.B.D. Tykocin and that R' Avraham Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv was the father of R' Eliezer Lipman Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv

Unfortunately, it is not possible to use "The Unbroken Chain" to verify this part of the information. As explained previously, UC refers us to other sources for more information on the Halpern family ancestry. Please bear in mind that R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav has an entry in UC because he is a Katzenellenbogen descendant through his mother's side. As for his father, Rabbi Eliezer Lippman Heilprin, A.B.D. of Tarnogrod he is only mentioned in his wife's entry, because she is the one who was the Katzenellenbogen descendant. It is in his wife's entry that we are told who her husband and her husband's father were. If we are interested in learning more about the Halpern family, we are referred to other sources, as explained above.

Are you familiar with any of the sources that we have been referred to, and have you had an opportunity to review them?

FWIW, it seems to me that this section of the tree which I have not been able to verify is definitely suspect. As it stands now, in Geni we are showing R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav as being a Katzenellenbogen descendant through his father's side, and I think this is very doubtful. It seems to me that if his father was actually a Katzenellenbogen descendant, then he would have had his own entry in UC, with a clear line of descent shown from the Meir of Padua down to himself, but that is definitely NOT the case.

Claudia

Private User,

I think we were cross-posting, as I did not see your replies prior to my last post. In any case, I believe that your understanding is correct.

Claudia

Claudia Bullock

I thank you very much, and greatly appreciate the efforts you put in

I think Naftali Vokstein wrote about the Halperin family, I will write to him and ask for the article he wrote... in addition, I may have a partial answer (that's why I asked you to verify the data with the "book The Unbroken Chain":

I once read an article that claimed that the descendants of The Kozker Rebbe write the generations in the Halperin family a little differently... This may be why there are several opinions in the books... I will try to check with Naftali and if I have an answer I will update

But in order to "complicate" matters a little, I worked on a another branch of the Halperin family,In the branch of the son-in-law of the maharashal,Rabbi Ephraim Fishel...

This branch is also connected to one of the daughters of the Maharam of Lublin

And why do I mention this? Because I think this branch eventually connects to the Halperin family tree we are currently discussing...but I need to check further

Haim Katz Wartski,Hachoen,

Sounds good. We will look forward to hearing what you find out.

Claudia

Claudia Bullock Thanks again you have been sparklingly clear and patient.

I wish someone could review Jacobi's work on the Heilprin tree which was not included in the published 'Papers'. This work is available at the Paul Jacobi Collection in the National Library of Israel (Givat Ram Campus of Hebrew University), although I do not know how legible the notes will be. Since Jacobi goes as far as to reference Israel Charif as Israel IV Charif b Eliezer IV Heilprin, it means that he had already begun the enumeration of the various Israels and Eliezers which could shed light on the matter. This is something to keep in mind for Heilprin descendants of this branch.

Claudia Bullock

updating:
Naftali Vokstein wrote to me that most of the things written about the ancestors of the Halperin family are not true, and he will send me the order of attribution of Kozk-Halperin...when he sends it to me, I will update here...I guess we will have to make changes in the Halperin family tree

Claudia Bullock

Naftali Vokstein sent me the genealogy of The Kozker Rebee-Halperin family

He just sent me just up to:
R' Eliezer Lipman Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv

And I can confirm that all the information currently appearing in Geni is true and accurate information..
If in the book The Unbroken Chain confirms the continuation of the family tree,between Rabbi Eliezer Halperin mentioned above up to:

Rabbi Zevulun Eliezer Heilprin

So all the information is correct in this branch

Regarding the name Lusia, I have some doubts that this is indeed her name, but since I have no information that disproves it, it is better to leave the situation as it is now

Haim Katz Wartski,Hachoen,

I'm afraid I did not find R' Eliezer Lipman Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv in "The Unbroken Chain", and while the book does confirm the ancestry of R' Avraham Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv up to Rabbi Zevulun Eliezer Heilprin it does not confirm that R' Avraham Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv was the father of R' Eliezer Lipman Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv

So.... is Naftali Vokstein able to send you information that goes past R' Eliezer Lipman Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv up to R' Avraham Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv in order to confirm that Avraham was the father of Eliezer. That is the one piece that seems to be missing. Or perhaps you already have other information that confirms that Avraham was the father of Eliiezer?

Claudia

Claudia Bullock
Thanks dear Claudia

I will ask him next week and when I have an answer I will update