Emma de Port - Emma Lady of Semer and Skarburgh "aka Emma de la Port" was Saxon.

The question of Emma de percy true identity is justifiably controversial and I think deserving of closer scrutiny.

https://www.geni.com/path/Gospatric-Earl-of-Dunbar+is+related+to+Ba...

Baroness Eleanor de Baliol, Lady Percy is Gospatric, Earl of Dunbar's third great granddaughter!
Gospatric, Earl of Dunbar
→ Waltheof of Allerdale
his son → Gunhild, of Allerdale
his daughter → Eva mac Uhtred
her daughter → NN daughter of Walter & Eva de Berkeley, heiress of Berkeley
her daughter → Baroness Eleanor de Baliol, Lady Percy
her daughter

Gospatric, Earl of Dunbar#

Ellen de Balliol

William de Percy, Baron of Topcliffe

Private User the funny thing is they are all my 22nd grandparents. How do you like that?

I don't know, what's so funny about that? I'd think Gospatric would be more like your 26th g-grandfather, though (if you're talking about the three profiles linked in my last post).

No I don't think there is any controversy about the original Emma de Port - just a lot of Bad Information from generations of romancers.

Romantic fiction has its place - but it is NOT in serious genealogy.

And believe me *that's* something I also know about from researching my relatively recent ancestors - the fictional "Lady Grace O'Neill" who had attracted so much romantic rubbish and even inspired a half-decent historical novel ("To Have and to Hold", by Mary Johnston), turned out to be plain Grace Neale from Northamptonshire with not a trace of Irish anywhere about her. (Her story is still plenty romantic and dramatic *without* all the folderol.)

Somebody, at some time, even went so far as to cobble up a fake pedigree for "Lady Grace" - but it did not hold up under detailed inspection.

Private User I was being funny. No they are all my 22nd grandparents.

Or at least trying to be funny. LOL. Geni lists all three as my 22nd great grandparents.

Keri Denise Jackson, ♊ Twin "A" it's a little odd, but not unheard of.

I had simply picked up on the irony of the marriage between the 3rd g-grandchildren of both Lord Gospatric of Northumbria and William de Percy "Algernons" -- considering the political history between the two patriarchs.

It reminds me of similar ironic marriage between the descendants of Andrew Jackson, 7th President of the USA# 's beloved wife, Rachel Jackson and John 'Nolichucky Jack' Sevier, 1st Gov. of Tennessee whose son they named Andrew Jackson Sevier

The groom was Governor John Sevier's grandson:

Dr. George Washington Sevier, Jr.

The wife, Sarah Knox, was the grand-niece of Andrew Jackson's wife, Rachel:

Sarah Sevier

Anyway, I'm sorry I had to explain my reasoning for my previous post. I guess some people just don't see the irony the same way that I do.

Private User I'm running out of time this morning, but "To Have and to Hold" sounds like a nice enough novel, if you're inclined to read lower quality fiction. I prefer classic literature, and I don't care for much of that either. Give me boring textbooks any day; I'll pass on all the drama, thank you.

Private User I do pickup on the irony of such things. I just was not quite sure the meaning of your post. Thank you.

With long pedigree paths on Geni is a good idea to check the links for bad connections. You’ll most likely find them at the “emigrated to America” generation.

The Percy tree likely needs more attention regardless, as the find of Emma de Percy with wrong husband and missing her parents already shows.

Erica Howton I'm actually going generation by generation now (grandparents and all the children ) and completing all the profiles so if there are any errors I should find them eventually. :)

Keri Denise Jackson, ♊ Twin "A" Your profile work has been great. Such a contribution to the Geni tree (and our cousins, and your family).

I’m more random and tend to work in “pockets” so I can concentrate better on time, place, historical context.

Does anyone object to the change in Emma de Percy, of Acaster and have more to say about the early Maltby family? William de Malebiche

I am showing as a direct. I have no knowledge of the line and thus no objections. Looks like excellent work here all around. Thank you.

I’ve hopefully finished my “medieval Emma” streak by sorting these additional Emma’s, somehow around the Percy’s.

Emma de Meinill

Emma Meynell

Emma de Malebiche

Erica Howton I think you are doing a great job. I have no objections. Looks good. I think the job we did on the de port tree was awesome. I highly enjoyed collaborating with you. :)

Yikes he was the worst ancestor yet.

Richard de Malebiche, of Acaster Malbis

27th great grandfather? Say it ain’t so.

26th for me.

Yay I fixed it. (My connecting Lawson was iffy).

I believe Emma de Port is the daughter of [Sybil] St. John and Adam de Port.

Gen 1: Wimund le Goz
Gen 2: Ralph St. John-Paynel m. [Mathilda] de Lacy & Mathilda de Day, daughter of Anceline de Day of Yorkshire
Gen 3. [Sybil] St. John m. Adam de Port that witnessed charters with her brother Thomas St. John of St. Jean-le-thomas who had a nephew named Ralph de Port.
Gen 4: Emma de Port m. William Percy
Gen 5: William Percy Abbot of Whitby

Between 1100-1130, King Henry I, granted land to Thomas [St. John] son of Ralph son of Wimund in Kellysthorpe, Yorkshire. Thomas married ____ Fossard,daughter of William Fossard son of Nigel Fossard of Yorkshire.

Ralph St. John-Paynel was a domesday landholder in Yorkshire and the man of William Fossard.

Wimund was the man of Ivo Taillebois. Ivo's father was the Prior of Whitby.

Suzanne St. John stjohngenealogy@gmail.com
www.stjohngenealogy.com

https://www.stjohngenealogy.com/getperson.php?personID=I105552294&a...

I should also point out Ralph St. John-Paynel's son Ralph Paynel married Mathilda de Sourdeval daughter of Richard de Sourdeval mentioned in previous comments.

I think this de Port family is an elder branch of the Adam de Port m. Maud de Orval, granddaughter of Murial St. John, daughter of Roger St. John son of Ralph St. John-Paynel son of Wimund.

In Round's article on St. John and Port he briefly discusses them but I have not yet worked it out myself.

Adam de Port could be Hugh de Port. I used Adam because he witnessed charters with Thomas St. John and his brothers.... and when Thomas St. John made amends to the monks of Mont-St.-Michel in 1121 he named one of his nephews Ralph de Port. I think this Ralph could be Emma's brother and maybe others.

https:/​/​deeds​.library​.utoronto​.ca/​charters/​03781102
https:/​/​deeds​.library​.utoronto​.ca/​charters/​05950109
https:/​/​deeds​.library​.utoronto​.ca/​charters/​03781000

Round's article named some children but then omitted others.

Wimund also held Grainsby, Lincolnshire where he was called Wimund de Grainsby a Breaton.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7314135

And he is listed with Arnketil; who I believe is also mentioned in previous comments.

Wimund was also Lord of Haye-Pensel in Normandy and brother to Thurstan who is the ancestor to Hugh d'Avranches Earl of Chester.

Thomas St. John the son of Ralph St. John-Paynel & [Mathilda] de Lacy daughter of Ilbert de Lacy and ____ daughter of Hugh d'Avranches Earl of Chester inherited Stanton-St. John and Rugge in standish.... in Domesday Ilbert dLacy held Stantone and Hugh co-held Standish.

Thought I'd bring it full circle.

If you go to the early Confirmation Charters at Mont-St.-Michel where Ralph St. John was the man, witnesses include Nigel (Fossard), Thurstan (le Goz) and Wimund (le Goz)...for example charter 702 dated to 1026.

They probably served under Ivo Tallboys with Odo de Conteville Bishop of Bayeux and others in 1066 Hastings and 1071 siege of Ely Abbey.

Later you get Fulk Paynel and William Paynel.

This would make Ralph St. John-Paynel and William d'AVranches son of Wimund, d. 1087,brothers.

Ralph St. John-Paynel and his son Ralph Paynel have been merged as one man - obliterating the obvious identity and origin of Ralph St. John.

Thank you for sharing, Suzanne St. John

I assume you mean Ralph (Radulf) Paynel, Sheriff of Yorkshire (my 28th g-grandfather, btw)?

In any case, please try to link the Geni profiles that might be relevant to your discussion.

Private User sorry I'm not familiar with Geni. I just stumbled upon your discussion and though I'd add to it.

I publish my research at www.stjohngenealogy.com. Here is a link to my record for Ralph St. John -Paynel and his son is listed under the children, whom I believe would be your 28th great-grandfather. https://www.stjohngenealogy.com/getperson.php?personID=I105552294&a...

You will also find [Sybil] St. John de Port listed in the children section and her daughter would then be Emma de Port of this discussion.

Emma de Port
My 27th Great Grandmother..

Welcome Suzanne St. John , pleased to meet you. I will certainly take a look at your website, and again appreciate so much that you have generously shared it here. I can see that you have done some serious research on this family.

You might like to begin a separate discussion regarding "Ralph St. John-Paynel and his son Ralph Paynel have been merged as one man - obliterating the obvious identity and origin of Ralph St. John." on the profile for Ralph (Radulf) Paynel, Sheriff of Yorkshire (unless you think another one would be more appropriate).

I would also encourage you to share your knowledge with other Geni subscribers by adding documentation to the profiles in question, if you are so inclined. Perhaps you could make notes in the "About" sections of the profiles, with links to the pertinent documents. And please feel free anytime, to initiate specific discussions on any questionable profiles, with suggestions for proper corrections.

Any suitable documentation for the origins of Emma de percy would be a most welcome addition to her profile.

I hope others reading this discussion will check out your genealogical work referenced here, and that you will always enjoy participating on this website as well.