Query on James RATCLIFFE

Started by Leanne M (Volunteer Curator - Australia) 🇦🇺 on Sunday, December 8, 2019
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James Ratcliffe, Convict "Almorah" 1817 is on Geni with
* born 1796
* died 1837
* arrived in Australia as a convict on "Almorah" in 1817

married 1st) Ann Ratcliffe (born 1798)
* 1821 Georgina Ratcliffe, infant
* 1823 Jane Martha Ratcliffe

married 2nd) in 1824 to Sarah PHILLIPS (1802-1864)
* 1825 James Ratcliffe
* 1827 William Marshall Ratcliffe
* 1829 Robert Felix Ratcliffe
* 1829 Elizabeth Ratcliffe
* 1831 Phoebe Elizabeth Ratcliffe
* 1834 John Ratcliffe
* 1836 Joseph Josiah Ratcliffe
* 1838 Sarah Maria Ward

Is James was transported to Australia on "Almorah" which left England in April of 1817 and arrived in Australia on 29/8/1817 how is he the father of two children born in England in 1821 and 1823?

Have 2 James's become confused?

https://convictrecords.com.au/convicts/ratcliffe/james/49835
James RATCLIFFE
born 23/9/1798
Sentenced 23/10/1816 (aged 16) to 7 years transportation and arrived Sydney, Australia on "Almorah" on 29/8/1817
sent to Tasmania, arriving 24/12/1817
died 9/3/1837

https://gw.geneanet.org/maxkenny?lang=fr&n=ratcliffe&oc=0&a...
James RATCLIFFE
born 23/9/1798
married 1/3/1824 to Sarah Jane PHILLIPS
died 9/3/1839
children
* Georgina 1821-1823
* Jane Martha 1823
* John 1824
* James 1825
* William Marshall 1827
* Elizabeth 1829
* Robert Felix 1829
* Phoebe Elizabeth 1831
* John 1834
* Joseph Josiah 1836
* Sarah Maria 1838

Private User

looks like I've merged an incorrect pair. I've disconnected Ann, Georgina and Jane from James.

this is the correct information..
JAMES RATCLIFFE
1798–1837
BIRTH 23 SEP 1798 • Warrington, Manchester, Lancashire, England
DEATH 9 MAR 1837 • Muddy Plains, York Plains, Clarence, Tasmania, Australia
3rd great-grandfather

Birth
23 Sep 1798 • Warrington, Manchester, Lancashire, England

Baptism
2 Feb 1800 • Warrington, Lancashire, England

1802 • Manchester, Lancashire, England
WE DO NOT KOW HOW OLD JAMES WAS WHEN HE STARTES TO BE A SWEEP, BUT RECORDS SAY FROM THE AGE OF FOUR XOULD BE SENT UP THOSE FLUES, AS THE SIZE WAS ROUGHLY 9 INCHS BY 9 INCHES

Residence
October 1814 • Lancashire, England

Apr 1816 • Salford, Greater Manchester, England
James Ratcliffe aged 16 charged jointly with two brothers with stealing eight yards of fustian" and further charged (apparently on his own), with stealing one pair

WILLIAM & JAMES ROBINSON WERE ALSO TRANSPORTED
TEMPTATION TO STEAL

AGE 17

17 OCTOBER 1816 • SPENT TIME ON PRISON HULL
UNTIL HE DEPARTS THE SHORES

CON13-1-1_00098_L
BRITISH CONVICTS TO AUSTRALIA
23 OCT 1816 • RETRIBUTION
BRITISH CONVICTS TO AUSTRALIA PERSONAL INFORMATION NAMES
James.
SURNAME Ratcliffe.
ALIAS . NONE
James Ratcliffe was one of 180 convicts transported on the Almorah.
ARRIVAL INFORMATION
DATE OF ARRIVAL April 1817.
SHIP Almorah. PO

AGE 18

SENTENCE-l TRANSPORTATION
23 October 1816 •
“James Ratcliffe, one of 180 convicts transported on the Almorah, April 1817” Convicted at Lancaster Quarter Session for a term of 7 years on 23 October 1816

23 October 1816 • Manchester, Lancashire
was tried at Manchester on 23 October 1816. The crime records searched from 1816 revealed ,"James Ratcliffe aged 16 charged jointly with two brothers with stealing eight yards of fustian" and further charged (apparently on his own), with stealing one pair

23 Oct 1816 • ON HIS CONVICT SHEET
HE IS 5 FT 2 INCHES, BROW HAIR BROWN EYES DK RUDDY COMPLEXION pockpitted, ring on ring finger, left hand.
Bill of costs of prosecution
1816 • Lancaster, Lancashire, , England
Reference: QSP/2708/159 Title: Bill of costs of prosecution of William Robinson, James Ratcliffe and James Robinson
Date: c1816
Held by: Lancashire Archives, not available at The National Archives Language:
Residence 20 Jan 1817 • Woolwich MOORED IN PRISON HULK

Departure
15 Apr 1817

ALMORA
On his way to Australia
15 Apr 1817 • They were transferred from there to the Almorah
Sailed on April, 1817
ARRIVALS
31 August 1817 •
First name(s) James
Last name Ratcliffe
Arrival date 31 August 1817
Ship name Almorah
State New South Wales
Country Australia

moved to Pilot from Sydney
11 Sep 1817 • sydney, to, Van Dieman’s Land

originally from the Hulk Retribution arrived in sydney and now loading to the Pilot to depart for Hobart,

Arrival
1817
CONDITIONS WERE REALLY GOOD ON THE ALMORA
1817
WHERE JAMES WAS WHEN HE ARRIVED IN TASMANIA
1817-1825 • Hugh Germain FARM AT MUDDY PLAINS WHERE JAMES WORKED UNTIL HIS FREE CERTIFICATE
The missionaries visited Hugh Germain, a ne ighbouring settler, who, Backhouse reported, had been addicted to spirits and ‘like many others in this country’ would bring rum home in a bucket and drink it neat. But he married Mather’s ho usekeeper Mar

ticket of leave
22/11/1823 • Hobart Town, Tasmania, Australia
James received his certificate, no.191 in 1823. (Convict records)

Marriage
Feb 1824 • Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
MARRIAGE PERMISSION GRANTED
Phillips, Sarah
Name Phillips, Sarah
Record Type Marriages
Gender Female
Age 21
Spouse Ratcliffe, James
Gender Male
Age 24
Date of marriage 01 Mar 1824
Registered Hobart Registration year 1824

SARAH PHILLIPS
(1801–1864)

Marriage
1 Mar 1824 • Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
JAMES ALSO WAS CONVICT LABOUR WHO ALSO WORKED FOR HUGH GERMAIN. ONE CAN ONLY IMAGINE A FRIENDSHIP TOOK PLACE WHIST WORKING

SARAH PHILLIPS
(1801–1864)

Birth of Son JAMES RATCLIFFE jr(1825–1908)
11 Jun 1825 • Hobart, Tasmania, Australia

apply for Land Grant
August 1825 • Clarence Plains, Muddy Plains, Hobart TAS Australia
applied for a grant of land and in his petition stated that he was free by servitude and had been in the employ of Hugh Germain, a farmer of Muddy Plains, since his arrival in the Colony in 1817

Birth of Son WILLIAM MARSHALL RATCLIFFE(1827–1900)
5 Jun 1827 • Muddy Plains, Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
1827

RETAILING SPIRITS
6 SEPT 1827 • Clarence Plains, Muddy Plains, Hobart TAS Australia
REGISTERED ON HIS CHARACTER RECORDS

DID HE STEEL THE SHEEP
13 Aug 1828 • SENT TO rICHMOND, Tasmania, Australia
SENT TO GOAL WHILST WAITING TO BE SENT TO RICHMOND FOR EXAMINATION ACCUSED OF STEALING 100 SHEEP FROM J THOMAS

Birth of Son ROBERT FELIX RATCLIFFE(1829–1903)
29 Aug 1829 • Clarence, Tasmania
1829

HE WAS IN THE SERVIE F HUGH GERMAINE-WHO WAS HUGH GERMAINE
1830 • Clarence Plains, Muddy Plains, Hobart TAS Australia
The area around Brighton was first explored by Europeans in early 1804 and by 1806, with serious food shortages in Hobart Town, expeditions of soldiers were being sent into this area to kill kangaroos and emus. It is claimed that during one of these expedi

Residence
1830 • Australia

SARAH GAINS HER CERTIFICATE OF FREEDOM
19TH MAR 1831

Birth of Daughter PHOEBE ELIZABETH RATCLIFFE(1831–)
23 Nov 1831 • Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
1831

ROAD THROUGH PROPERTY
1832 • Muddy Plains Tas Australia
Other neighbourhood feuds became evident. A group of settlers complained that Hugh Germain had made a road impassable at Muddy Plains. Years ago he and William Roberts had decided to provide half the land each for a road through their properties,

Birth of Son JOHN RATCLIFFE(1834–1912)
23 May 1834 • Muddy Plains, Hobart TAS Australia
1834

Birth of Son JOSEPH JOSIAH RATCLIFFE(1836–1914)
23rd September 1836 • Muddy Plains, Hobart TAS Australia

CAUSE OF DEATH
9 Mar 1837
WE CANNOT FIND RECORDS OF THE CAUSE OF DEATH, BUT AFTER READING ABOUT THE CONDITIONS OF THE SWEEP, AND THE AVERAGE AGE WAS 37.7 YRS, I REALIZE THAT THIS COULD BE THE CAUSE OF DEATH...CHIMNEY SWEEP CANCER

1837
Death
9 Mar 1837 • Muddy Plains, York Plains, Clarence, Tasmania, Australia
2 Sources 2 Media
1837

38

Fullscreen capture 22012017 54309 PM.bmp
Burial
9th of March, 1837 • Rokeby Church, Hobart, Tasmania where James is buried
Rokeby Church, Hobart, Tasmania where James is buried. James Ratcliff died at York Plains and was buried on the 9th of March, 1837, he was a free farmer by this stage and was only 41 years old. The ceremony was performed by Robert Knopwood

2 Media
1837

38

ROKEBY CEMETRY
Burial
9 MARCH 1837 • ROKEBY CHURCH, TASMANIA

LAND JAMES RECEIVED FROM THE LAND GRANT SOLD
7 Oct 1848 • RALPHS BAY, Clarence Muddy Plains, Tasmania, Australia
SARAH SELLS LAND FROM THE LAND GRANTED TO JAMES RATCLIFFE HER 1ST HUSBAND
Our response to your Question RT50651 is:

Dear Raelene

Thank you for your enquiry.

I have checked the following - 'Index to Tasmanian Deaths/Burials 1797-1840's' by A.M Buchanan and James Ratcliffe is mentioned with the following details -

1837, aged 41, Born - 1796, CIP's C of E (Clarence Plains, Rokeby - Church of England)

I then searched a very useful site which contains images and transcripts of headstones and could find no mention of him for Clarence Plains - Rokeby area churches - http://www.gravesoftas.com.au/municipalities/Clarence/St%20Matthews...

I shall include the link to the full website here for your perusal - http://www.australiancemeteries.com/tas/tas1.htm

I also searched TROVE ( National Libraries of Australia) for mention of his death in any newspapers of the day and I could find none.

His death was very early and it is not unusual for headstones to perish over time. I imagine this has what has occurred in this instance.

Here is a very informative blog post written about the Clarence Plains area and includes some photos of St Mathews Church - http://ontheconvicttrail.blogspot.com/2013/05/st-mathews-church-rok...

I can also see no mention of the cause of death on his record and could find no inquest.

Kind Regards
Leanne Franklin
Archivist, State Library and Archive Service
Libraries Tasmania

In August 1825 James applied for a grant of land and in his petition stated that he was free by servitude and had been in the employ of Hugh Germain, a farmer of Muddy Plains, since his arrival in the Colony in 1817. He had a wife and one child, and cultivated three acres of unallocated land on the South side of Ralphs Bay, on which he had erected a weatherboard and shingle house. He also possessed a hundred sheep. The Land Board recommended that he be granted an additional fifty acres, and this was approved by Lieutenant-Governor Arthur. (OSO 1/361/8279). In April 1831 he applied for more land, but the application was not recommended by the Land Board. By 1826 he had three children, the eldest of whom was six years old. (CSO 1/467/10342).

In August 1825 James applied for a grant of land and in his petition stated that he was free by servitude and had been in the employ of Hugh Germain, a farmer of Muddy Plains, since his arrival in the Colony in 1817. He had a wife and one child, and cultivated three acres of unallocated land on the South side of Ralphs Bay, on which he had erected a weatherboard and shingle house. He also possessed a hundred sheep. The Land Board recommended that he be granted an additional fifty acres, and this was approved by Lieutenant-Governor Arthur. (OSO 1/361/8279). In April 1831 he applied for more land, but the application was not recommended by the Land Board. By 1826 he had three children, the eldest of whom was six years old. (CSO 1/467/10342).

The Memorial of James Ratcliffe. 1825
Humbly Sheweth

George Arthur, Esqu.
Lieut. Governor
Van Dieman's Land

That Your Honors memorialist is free by servitude having been in but one employ that of Hugh Germain, farmer of Muddy Plains during the whole time of his banishment. Your Honors Memorialist has a wife and one child and being desirous of providing for them comfortably and wishing to employ himself on his own account he has cultivated three acres of unlocated land and built a weather-boarded and shingle house on the same being on the south side of Ralphs Bay [googlemap]. Your Honors Memorialist trusting that the testimonials of his conduct will prove satisfactory, humbly begs leave to ask Your Honor to establish him on the said land by Grant, with the addition of a little more land attached to it sufficient for the support of himself and family and which he pledges himself and will be enabled to cultivate having at least fifty pounds of disposable property.

And Your Honors Memorialist will in duty bound ever prays.

I hereby certify that James Ratcliffe was in my employ from the time of his arrival in the colony until he became free upwards of six years - and he conducted himself during the whole time with perfect propriety.
Hugh Germain*
Robert Evans

IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE ANY FURTHER INFORMATION PLEASE CONTACT MYSELF, OR MY ANCESTRY ..THE MURCUTT FAMILY
REGARDS RAELENE STRONG

Hi Thomas,
i think the james you are thinkg f is this James son...
JAMES RATCLIFFE jr
1825–1908
BIRTH 11 JUN 1825 • Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
DEATH 7 AUG 1908 • 24 williamson street, Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
married Ann Dunbar
Marriage
20 Jun 1849 • St. James, Melbourne, VIC

ANN DUNBAR
(1824–1903)

they had a daughter Jane, but i have not got a georgina.
again if you go to my tree you will get the info .
Murcutt Family Tree...only hepy to help

Private User

Appears to be a likely possibility, but will need to look into DOB of the daughters as the current dates are not a correct fit to be James Jr's daughters.. at least based on the information that is currently in the profiles, that are likely wrong.

Have you looked at my tree on ancestry. as ihavedone a huge amount of research on this family line, and i am positive they are correct.
Although some people have mixed this james up with James Medcalf ratcliffe, so i have made sure that they are right. Can I please ask you where you are related to this line, you maybe another surprise cousin.

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