Baron Hugh de Port (St. John) - Brother with same name

I found the other de ports you mentioned

Matilda de Mandeville

Adam de Port

Henry de Port

I added the Henry.

https://books.google.com/books?id=JNz_Oy8mQQgC&pg=PA61&dq=b...

The New England Historical and Genealogical Register, p.61

1. William de St. John was one of the Barons who accompanied the Norman Duke in his invasion of England—and he held the honorable post of Grand Master of the Artillery in the invading army; he married Olivia de Fiegiers.

2. John de St. John, lord of Stanton, also Henry I.

3. Roger de St. John married Cicely de Haya.

4. Muriel de St. John married Reginald de Aureval.

5. Mabel de Areval married Adam de Port, Baron of Basing in the County of Southampton—and a son of John de Port, whose father Henry was son of Hugh de Port, a Baron in the time of William I. and owner of 55 lordships in the said county of Southampton.

6. William de Port assumed the name of St. John, and was Baron St. John of Basing—he married Godchild Paganal.

7. Robert de St. John, second Baron of Basing, 38 Henry III.—he married the daughter and heiress of William de Cantilupe.

Adam de Porz. In Dugdale's Baronage, vol. I, p. 463, there is a long account of the Ports of Basing in Hampshire, whence it appears that Hugh de Port in the time of the Conqueror held 50 lordships in that county.

He left two sons, Henry, who granted great part of his lordship of Sherburne to the monks of Saint-Vigor at Cerisy, Normandy, and Adam de Port, who confirmed such grant.

Henry left a son John, temp. Hen. II., who also confirmed the grants to the monks of Saint-Vigor, then settled at Sherburne. John left Adam de Port and Hugh. Adam made several grants to Sherburne. In 26 Hen. II. he paid 1000 marks for the livery of his wife's inheritance in Normandy, and for being restored to the king's favor. In 6 Ric. I. he was with the army in Normandy. Afterwards he was accused of the death of Hen. II. and adjuged to forfeit his lands. We find him governor of Southampton, 15 John. His son took the name of Saint-John, and that of Port was lost.

There was another baron named Adam de Port, of Herefordshire, temp. Hen. II., but not so distinguished. See Dugdale's Baronage, vol. I, p. 465.

https://books.google.com/books?id=BpUGAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA132&dq=...

Chronicle of the War between the English and the Scots in 1173 and 1174, p.132 (Notes)

https://books.google.com/books?id=NuAKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA23&dq=h...

The Great Governing Families of England, p.23

The Conqueror's nephew, HUGH LUPUS, the grim Earl of Chester, gave him, wherefore we are not told, the whole lordship of Whitby, with the large territory adjacent, in the North Riding, and here WILLIAM de PERCY, to soothe his conscience, founded anew the Abbey of St Hilda, ravaged, he said, by a Danish and pagan ancestor, in whom he, perhaps, believed.

Still further to soothe his conscience, [William de Percy] is said to have married EMMA de PORT, of whose lands at SEAMER, near Scarborough, he had taken possession
by the sword.

Legend has it that [Emma de Port] was the daughter of EARL GOSPATRICK, the great Saxon Earl of Northumberland, and that it was Lord William [de Percy] who saved his father-in-law after the last Saxon rising.

https://books.google.com/books?id=8-4KAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontco...

A History of the House of Percy, p.4

William de Percy's wife, Emma de Porte, was the heiress of Seamer (Semer, et.al.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seamer,_Scarborough

https://books.google.com/books?id=FffUAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA428&dq=...

The History of Scarborough from the Earliest Date, pp.427-30

"William de Percy married Emma, the daughter of Earl Gospatrick, Earl of Northumberland, who was slain at the battle of Hastings, A.D. 1066.

"This lady about the time of her marriage took the name of Emma de Port. She was 'Lady Emma of Seamer and Scardeburgh'.

"Henry de Percy was governor of Scarbrough Castle in the sixteenth year of the reign of King Edward III.

"William de Percy, surnamed Algernon, ancestor of the present family of Northumberland, possessed eighty lordships in Yorkshire alone. He came into England at the time of the Norman Conquest, and left behind him four sons.

"Emma de Port, his wife, is said to have taken the name of Port from Scarbrough, which was the name of the place prior to the erection of the castle.

"She was heiress to the lands which William the Conqueror gave to Sir William de Percy for his services.

"By this gift of Grospatrick's estates, this Saxon orphan was reduced to the level of the lowest of her bond maids.

"She is, unquestionably, the very first Lady on record belonging to Scarbrough.

"William de Percy married her 'in discharge of his conscience'.

Emma de Percy

William, Baron of Topcliffe

This explains where the Seamer comes from, and I’m pretty sure it’s a wishful thinking.

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"William de Percy married Emma, the daughter of Earl Gospatrick, Earl of Northumberland, who was slain at the battle of Hastings, A.D. 1066.

Google: Earl Gospatrick, Earl of Northumberland

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DescriptionGospatric or Cospatric, was Earl of Northumbria, or of Bernicia, and later lord of sizable estates around Dunbar. While his paternal ancestry is uncertain, his descendants held the Earldom of Dunbar, later known as the Earldom of March, in south-east Scotland until 1435. Wikipedia
Died: 1073, Northam, United Kingdom
Parents: Maldred
Successor: Robert de Comines
Children: Gospatric II, Earl of Lothian, Ethelreda, daughter of Gospatric,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospatric,_Earl_of_Northumbria

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Emma de Percy

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMEDIEVAL3P-S.htm#Joh...

c) [EMMA de Port (-after 1107). A charter listing the property of Whitby Monastery names ”Emma de Port” as wife of “Willielmus de Perci cognomento Algernuus”[759]. “Willelmus de Perci” donated property to the monks of Whitby “et Serloni priori fratri meo”, for the souls of “…Emma de Port uxore mea et Alano de Perci filio meo”, by charter dated to [1090/96], witnessed by “Emma de Port uxor mea, Alanus, Walterus et Willielmus filii mei, Ernaldus de Perci…”[760]. "Emma de Percy" held a house in Winchester in [1107/15][761]. m WILLIAM de Percy, son of --- (-Jerusalem [1097/1100], bur Jerusalem).

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So - wow, awesome job tracking the “Seamer” Ref. Not sure who actually held the Manor?

Ah hah. Round was unsure that Emma was daughter of Hugh, she could have been a close relation (this seems like the Hubert story again). The Percy’s were also from Calvados, and William’s parents are likely unidentified.

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https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Percy-382

Wife and children

He married Emma de Port. "She was nearly related to Hugh de Port of Basing, the ancestor in the male line of the family of St. John (Round in Genealogist, vol. xvi, p. 6)."

Identifying Emma as a Saxon seems a little crazy?

The quote is from

The history of Scarbrough: from the earliest date Joseph Brogden Baker (1882) Page 428

And we need to add the legend to Emma’s profile.

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Remember that Round found Dugdale jumped the shark on the origins of the de Ports, and hence his correction article. I think later gens are probably fine; and Cawley’s Medlands should reflect “current thinking.”

http://knight-france.com/geneal/names/547.htm Comments:

[DE PERCYs: all data collected (books, LDS, encyclopedias, websites) are inconsistent and contradictory. This pedigree is strongly questionable !]

And follows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_de_Percy for Emma’s origins as “an English lady.”

I do not see Hughes de Port holding land in Yorkshire.

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It's a fascinating problem, so glad Keri brought it to our attention and that Erica is helping to sort it out.

And thanks to Debra for tracking down the “Seamer” reference!

So far this is what I think:

- it is not entirely certain where in the de Port family Emma is placed. However it seems that Adelaide de Port & Emma de Percy “both” held a house in Winchester Hampshire in 1115 (Medlands). That argues persuasively to me that they were sisters.

- so if Emma is (living?) in Hampshire after her husband’s disappearance in Jerusalem, who was buried at Whitby in Yorkshire?

- was the “Lady of Seamer” story totally invented to explain the Percy property acquisition, or was there another Emma wife?

This looks like a current examination of the Percy’s, and follows Round in calling Emma a “member of the family” of Hugh of Basing without naming parents:

Early Yorkshire Charters: Volume 11, The Percy Fee, Volume 11 edited by William Farrer, Charles Travis Clay.

https://books.google.com/books?id=EkB2UdPlD4sC&lpg=PA1&ots=...

I’m going to screen shot it.

And tear some hair.

:)

I’m now theorizing William de Percy may have had two wives:

1. (?Emma?), lady of Semer, daughter of a Saxon property holder perhaps called Gospatric, killed at the Battle of Hastings 1066. There is contemporary evidence for this.

2. Emma de Port of Hugh’s family. niece? I don’t think she was Hubert’s daughter because she brought Hampshire property to the Marriage - and Hubert had only the one manor. And if she’s Norman her father was not called Gospatric. She was Percy’s widow.

Thoughts?

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From Annals of the House of Percy: From the Conquest to the Opening of the Nineteenth Century, Volume 1. Edward Barrington De Fonblanque (1887). Page 13. [https://books.google.com/books?id=JBAXAAAAYAAJ&vq=Emma%20de%20p... GoogleBooks]

>EMMA DE PORT. William de Percy married a Saxon lady of rank, but there are no records to establish her parentage. is generally described as Emma de Port,1 the Norman A.d. surname having probably been given to her by the invaders in right of her ownership of Semer near Scarborough, then an important seaport. A graceful legend reports her to have been a daughter of Gospatrick, Earl of Northumberland,' who conferred her hand upon the Norman knight in recompense for his having saved her father's life when, on the suppression of the rebellion, he had fallen into the hands of the Conqueror's army. According to Dugdale, however, the Saxon Earl had only one daughter, Julia, who became the wife of Ranulph de Marley, and we must fall back upon this more prosaic version of Percy's marriage in an ancient MS.: "Emma of the Porte .... was Lady of Semer besides Skarburgh afore the Conquest, and of other lands, William Conqueror gave to Syr William Percye for his good service; and he weddid hyr that was very heir to them in discharging of his conscience."3

>We may thus infer that Percy having received a grant of the lands of which the Saxon maiden had been either the owner or the heiress, he compensated her for the loss of her possessions by making her his wife.

* 1 The same name was borne by one of William's knights at the invasion:"Huc, le sire de Montfort, Cil d'Espine and cil de Port."—Roman de Rou
*2 Charlton's History of Whitby Abbey, p. 50.
* 3 Ex Registro Monasterii de Whitbye, Harl. MSS. No. 692 (26), fol. 235, from which extracts are published in the Antiquarian Repertory, vol. iv. p. 4.

In regards to N.N. de Port and especially the name “Gospatric.” It’s not a Norman Name, it’s Brittonic, which is British Isles.

Ref:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospatric
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittonic_languages
http://www.thepeerage.com/p15828.htm#i158275

But the origins of the de Port family are Calvados which is Normandy, not Brittany, and certainly not the British Isles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvados_(department)_

So I think that “Hughes Gospatric” Name is part of the legend of the Saxon lady of Semer, and should be

- Gospatric spun off into a Northumberland person, father of 1st wife Emma (IF we accept this theory)
- father of Hugh and Hubert renamed to N.N.

All I know is that all of my sources so far indicate that Emma "de Port" was English (i.e. Anglo Saxon, not Norman; so not a member of the Norman de la Port family).

She was the heiress of Seamer near Scarbrough, and her father was Gospatrick, the Anglo Saxon Earl of Northumbria. de Port was not her surname, but more of a nickname resulting from the fact that "Seamer" meant in Old English: Lake.

I gather that Gospatrick fought against and was defeated by William the Conqueror at the Battle of Hastings, lost his estate, and sought refuge in Scotland. Somehow Emma was left behind (or captured), and wound up marrying William de Percy, the new owner of her home.

None of my historical sources make any mention of "Hugh de Port, Lord of Seamer". According to my sources, Seamer in those times belonged to the de Percy family, which later changed their surname to St. John.

The Norman de Port family were granted lands in a completely different region of England, and as far as I can tell they were for all practical purposes unrelated to Emma, Lady of Seamer and the de Percys.

The duplicate Hugh de Port, Lord of Seamer is apparently deleted already, but I have to say that so far I've found no real documentation of his existence anyway. He's mentioned in Wikipedia in the article about Seamer, and here and there on the internet, but without any substantial documentation that I'm aware of.

This particular Wikipedia article, on the other hand, apparently refers to the authentic person named Hugh de Port who was actually granted land and titles following the Conquest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_de_Port

So it just seems to me that someone was confused by the fact that Emma, Lady of Seamer's nickname, "de Port", is so similar to the surname of the Norman de Port family (although of completely different origin).

Erica Howton this is definitely something to think about. I don't know if I'm missing it but does it mention Emma's first husband's name?

c) [EMMA de Port (-after 1107). A charter listing the property of Whitby Monastery names ”Emma de Port” as wife of “Willielmus de Perci cognomento Algernuus”[759]. “Willelmus de Perci” donated property to the monks of Whitby “et Serloni priori fratri meo”, for the souls of “…Emma de Port uxore mea et Alano de Perci filio meo”, by charter dated to [1090/96], witnessed by “Emma de Port uxor mea, Alanus, Walterus et Willielmus filii mei, Ernaldus de Perci…”[760]. "Emma de Percy" held a house in Winchester in [1107/15][761]. m WILLIAM de Percy, son of --- (-Jerusalem [1097/1100], bur Jerusalem).

If I'm reading it looks like they got married in Jerusalam? Isn't that where her first husband went missing?

Erica Howton I found this profile which unless I'm wrong is not correct

William de Percy, Whitby

Erica Howton Another possibility is that Hugh and Hubert had another brother?

My post before was considering that it was a made up story to cover up something else. Would not be the first time we humans have done that. LOL.

Erica Howton Another possibility is that de Port was not her surname at all. And maybe she should be removed from this part of the tree.

Maybe she is related to Adam de port and Henry de port with unknown parents?

Private User

This lists Emma's father as Gospatric de Port . So I'm not sure if it nickname or not.

http://www.thepeerage.com/p15828.htm#i158275

According to Wikipedia (backed up by citing the Domesday Book) -- 1081–1087: Hugh de Port was High Sheriff of Nottingham, Derbyshire, and the Royal Forests.

I honestly did not expect to see his name there!

http://www.domesdaybook.co.uk/searchresults.html?siteurl=www.domesd...

Erica Howton and if she is related the Adam de Port and Henry de Port with unknown parents then maybe they are her brothers and Gospatric de Port is their father who is Hugh and Hubert's brother who branched out and became "anglo-Saxen" to make his own branch of the family?

How do like my explanation of it? Hey could be true. Look how many times that has happened throughout history. Family disown family members or family members for numerous reasons may separate themselves from the rest of the family. Maybe he was a younger brother that was not going to be the heir so he decided to make his own fortune.

Anglo-Saxon not Anglo-Saxen

Erica Howton he is never referred to as hugh or hughes only as Gospatric.

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/search?query=%22hugh+de+port%22&a...=

Keri I saw that too, but I'm not real sure of that source (I think it's secondary and possibly incomplete as well).

Erica Howton yeah but can we make a connection to Gospatric de Port? I don't think they are the same person. I could be wrong. I do think they are related.

Private User can we make a connection to Gospatric de Port? Is there something out there that says Gospatric was also known as Hugh?

Keri, I'm not aware of any evidence Earl Gospatric of Northumbria (Emma de Port, Lady of Seamer's father) ever went by that surname, at least not officially.

In the Anglo Saxon Chronicles it only says that in 1067 (shortly after the Conquest) "Earl Gospatric and the best men went into Scotland"...Later, in 1069 Earl Gospatric joined with an army that attacked the Normans up in the Borders region.

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/medieval/ang11.asp

I have no evidence that Earl Gospatric was ever called Hugh. Nor did William de Percy and Emma de Port have any sons named Hugh either, that I'm aware of. I've also not seen any evidence that 1st Baron William de Percy ever had any other wives.

However, apparently during that same general time period there did live a Norman Hugh de Port who was granted the title of High Sheriff of Nottingham, Derbyshire, and the Royal Forests for a few years. I suppose this was Hugh, Lord of Basing.

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/hants/vol4/pp115-127

Gospatric is a Saxon name, it is not Norman. So there is “no chance” that Gospatric is related to the Hugh de Port family. None.

But we know that Emma de Port of the Calvados, Normandy family was the wife of William de Percy. How do we know that? Aside from what the “authorities” of Round and Cawley say in their pedigrees, there are Records.

"Emma de Percy" held a house in Winchester in [1107/15][761].

So did Alianore de Port.

Emma de Port as part of her marriage brought property in Hampshire & Cambridge. That would be nowhere near Northumberland & Yorkshire. And there is no property held by Hugh in those areas.

Now, the chances that William married two women both named Emma de Port seem really low, and as far as I can tell, “Gospatric de Port” did not exist.

What I think is more likely is that there’s a core if truth to the legend (and trust me, it’s a legend !)

That is - perhaps William had a first wife, a Saxon “lady of Semer,” and perhaps her father was Gospatric. He later was conflated with the Earl of Northumberland to further “jump up” the Percy pedigree, which can be seen as one of those medieval concoctions back to Rollo the Viking (ummm .... NO).

And then later he did indeed marry Emma de Port. And so the two wives became one.

Most place Emma her as daughter of Hugh. If it’s good enough for Complete Peerage, it’s good enough for me.

ThePeerage.com is heavily reliant on Burke’s, and we already know from Round that Burke’s is unreliable for the de Ports.

We have to get the Calvados family off the Brittonic Name.